thicker sways noticable handling difference? [Archive]

dahon

13-12-2008, 11:47 PM

hey guys, just wondering...
im bored and just decided to throw out a question...

atm im running a 13mm rear sway (civic) and was thinking of going the full asr+ctr rear sway bar kit. just wondering what the handling differences would be? (not thinking of upgrading the front...)
what would be the cars handling characteristics with a thick sway, i know it would be stiffer thus the rear would stay (even more oversteer), but would it only be noticable on tighter turns or overall? small or large roundabouts? atm my handling is good (running thicker tyres aswell) but would it be worth the extra effort and cash for the larger sway?
how would the driving feel differ between the two aswell?

cheers for any input.

Limbo

13-12-2008, 11:52 PM

yeah you notice the difference right away. The rear feels alot more solid going thru corners, even light ones. It can also promote oversteer depending on your setup, i know i can push my rear to drift out abit at times depending on what rear tyres i'm running

dahon

13-12-2008, 11:58 PM

ahh i see i see
so it promotes even more confidence in the cars handling even going slow?
i always thought it is more effective with greater turn in, the light ones arent really noticable but i guess i gotta see for myself aye hehehe
cheers limbo!

Limbo

14-12-2008, 12:12 AM

yeah you will notice the difference on any turn with the larger swaybar, and even more so with the ASR.

While your at it i'd recommend LCAs they certainly made a difference for me.
ALso stopped those creaking noises all larger swaybar people have.

I have the 24mm whiteline bar + ASR, but since i got one piece at a time i noticed things at each upgrade

55EXX

14-12-2008, 09:12 PM

is that the whiteline bar that is 22mm in diameter but on the harder setting gives the same stiffness as a 24mm? didn't think they made 24mm bars in the rear for eg. i have the 22mm bar in the rear the difference is night and day! every corner a higher speed can be easily maintained and also turn in is sharper and body roll reduced

Limbo

14-12-2008, 09:51 PM

i had a custom order and i got an EK

55EXX

15-12-2008, 07:48 AM

wow. did you call and ask? does it still have the various end holes for different stiffness settings? what front sway do you run? how much for just the bar and i guess new bushes?

Limbo

16-12-2008, 12:31 PM

yeah it has 2 hole settings. 22mm to 24mm. I run the standard EK4 front bar 26mm i think?

I got it ordered from EGSI - underground imports quite a while ago. waited about 2 weeks for them to come in.

55EXX

16-12-2008, 03:59 PM

awesome! wish i knew before i ordered mine. when i get a asr i might step it up. thanks limbo

dahon

16-12-2008, 06:30 PM

yeh im sure you wouldnt really need to upgrade the stock ek4 front sway... that ones thick enough...
cheers limbo for the advice
ill be going ctr bar + asr when i buy and then start to build my project later next year
=)

drated

17-12-2008, 11:29 AM

just to throw this into the mix how much of a difference will it make if u already have say coilovers or springs ... how much of a difference will the sways and asr rear subframe make ?

Mugen Civic

17-12-2008, 07:29 PM

still there is a difference. Especially in the long fast bends.

+1 on the ASR brace and 22mm RSB.

Mugen Civic

17-12-2008, 07:30 PM

55EXX

17-12-2008, 08:04 PM

deleted

55EXX

17-12-2008, 08:10 PM

just to throw this into the mix how much of a difference will it make if u already have say coilovers or springs ... how much of a difference will the sways and asr rear subframe make ?
https://www.whiteline.com.au/images/articles/AS_0308_susp_2.jpg

gold info. the asr brace is purely for strengthening of the lower subframe which is essential for big swaybars. the lower tie rod like that in the page i posted is old school. asr is the bee nees. whiteline also make one similar tho many dis it i had it on my last ek and it was great. i have a 22mm rear sway and heavy duty mounting brackets and tie rod bar on my eg at the moment and it is fine as the egs had a stronger rear subframe than those of eks.

asr is better bling too. then asr plus beaks = queen of bling. add some shiny anodised lca's and there is king of bling. and add a bennen tow hook to just rub it in some more.

55EXX

17-12-2008, 08:15 PM

ek4 is 26mm front 14 rear stock

bennjamin

17-12-2008, 08:16 PM

gold info. the asr brace is purely for strengthening of the lower subframe which is essential for big swaybars

not 100% correct - the ASR kit is to fit a swaybar made for a DC2R or EK9 subframe ,to a lesser car such as a EG or lesser DC2/DC4.
Its designed to emulate the subframe itself,plus incorporates the added reinforcement you speak of.

BTW , the new whiteline design for the EK subframes is STILL flawed. It lacks the back brace such as BEAKS or ASR kits. It will still fail in time.

dahon

17-12-2008, 08:52 PM

bennjamin

17-12-2008, 08:56 PM

whiteline kit doesnt have the backing plate that goes on the other side of the subframe?
also:
besides the bling factor wouldnt adding a tie bar to an asr be useless anyways?
plus also lowers your ground clearance lolz...

Whiteline afaik does not have the backing plate. (that links / reinforces the mount points for the mounting bolts) - no matter how big the front swaybar mount , if it relies on the standard 2 tiny welded nuts OR a simle little hole in place. FIX IT WHITELINE STOP BEING COST EFFECTIVE FFS

bennjamin

17-12-2008, 08:57 PM

ps no point adding a tie bar at all if you have the ASR

55EXX

17-12-2008, 08:59 PM

yeah beaks it useless but its for purely bling. the asr has a brace on the other side? the whiteline has a small brace that goes from the 2 bolt together to prevent pull out. it for me was great and great value. it suited me fine. has anyone seen the new brace that was properly installed etc fail?

bennjamin

17-12-2008, 09:02 PM

55EXX

17-12-2008, 09:08 PM

my ek's. sorry no pics of the other side tho

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4745/1101/24360550109_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4745/1101/24360550113_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4745/1101/24360550114_large.jpg

RtN

17-12-2008, 09:20 PM

got the whiteline one for sale if ya need =]

Limbo

17-12-2008, 10:03 PM

true i've seen the new improved one and its crap, the car i saw this on was flexing at certain point & the tubing bits for the bolts were bending to the point they were about to fall off.The only good thing is the bar itself. I run the ASR to the whiteline bar and used all ASR bolts, which are higher quality

not 100% correct - the ASR kit is to fit a swaybar made for a DC2R or EK9 subframe ,to a lesser car such as a EG or lesser DC2/DC4.
Its designed to emulate the subframe itself,plus incorporates the added reinforcement you speak of.

BTW , the new whiteline design for the EK subframes is STILL flawed. It lacks the back brace such as BEAKS or ASR kits. It will still fail in time.

saxophonias

23-12-2008, 07:55 PM

does the 26mm front and 24mm rear swaybar combo promote any oversteer worries?

55EXX

23-12-2008, 09:18 PM

no. i had the 24mm front and 22mm rear on the hardest setting in my last ek. pictured earlier and i'd have to say that was just leaning towards oversteer. throttle off and oversteer, thottle on and understeer. brake and drifto! the 26mm stock i am unsure if it is hollow or not but if it is solid a good balance could be achieved with that. the different holes for the setting provide a big difference. the difference between my 22mm rear on the hardest to the softest setting is huge. i have stock 21mm front with original rubber bushes and 22mm rear on hardest setting on my eg and that is fun. that is more oversteer. pushing in on the ramp from the centenery highway down and around onto the ipswich motorway tailslide throttle off is fun. whereas softest is a neutral balance.

Limbo

30-12-2008, 10:19 AM

The front one is solid 26mm, i took it off before & based on the weight it couldnt be hollow.

Generally if you increase the rear to 24mm it tends to oversteer, which cna be fun.
The way i countered this was pretty much by accident, i got new LCAs, which distributed the weight in the rear better.

Also got a 3 point front brace & lower front 4point brace.
The car now is more neutral.

I just now gotta do the middle bar & rear upper struts to finish it off.

55EXX

30-12-2008, 02:12 PM

Generally if you increase the rear to 24mm it tends to oversteer, which cna be fun.

try 21mm with soft oem bushes front and 22mm rear whiteline . that is fun.

mugenrr

30-12-2008, 02:41 PM

if you know your car.
you'll feel the difference.
wif my experiences more stiff on the back will cause over steer.
stiffer on the front more understeer..
i rekon find a balance that your driving skills can handle...

dahon

30-12-2008, 06:23 PM

limbo have u tried those front fender braces considering youve already got a 3 & 4point front brace?

55EXX

30-12-2008, 07:11 PM

and rear x bar ftw

nigs

30-12-2008, 08:43 PM

Snap oversteer from throttle lift off sucks balls. And controlling the slide can be tricky. Big sways, hard damper and no semis make S bends interesting. Even funnier in the wet.

55EXX

31-12-2008, 08:02 AM

don't lift off the throttle. so basically brake before the corner and hard accel out ftw. big rear bar helps get that traction down. once you know the course is clear pedal down. mid corner brake from unexpected ? = snap oversteer FTL!

or bit of slower speed scandinavian flick and full throttle ;)

Limbo

01-01-2009, 08:46 PM

nah not yet but i spoke with someone about them before, who runs them and they told me it helps stop the front from lifting. May invest in a set someday or i might get somone to weld them for me

limbo have u tried those front fender braces considering youve already got a 3 & 4point front brace?

55EXX

01-01-2009, 09:48 PM

get somone to weld them for me

ftw. flat piece of 4mm steel cut and drill holes/ or weld and paint. pretty much DIY

chilli

01-01-2009, 10:57 PM

i got whiteline front and rear sway bar (on ek1) with the rear on the harder setting.

I havent had any problem yet with the subframe tearing (been on car about 40,000km). And the handling greatly improved from standard, although my aim was mainly to just reduce bodyroll (which i was happy with). I did notice more overstear and snap oversteer on harder breaking (more so in wet), although i think my shocks are gone so it may be because of that also.

=]

55EXX

03-01-2009, 12:39 PM

gone shocks would put more stress onto the sway bar and worsen the problem

Limbo

07-01-2009, 12:24 PM

doesn't happen to everyone, but the ones it does are usually the 22-24mm ones

i got whiteline front and rear sway bar (on ek1) with the rear on the harder setting.

I havent had any problem yet with the subframe tearing (been on car about 40,000km). And the handling greatly improved from standard, although my aim was mainly to just reduce bodyroll (which i was happy with). I did notice more overstear and snap oversteer on harder breaking (more so in wet), although i think my shocks are gone so it may be because of that also.

=]

Limbo

07-01-2009, 12:25 PM

btw... my front bottom 4 point snapped. Had to get it rewelded!!!

EGBenny

07-01-2009, 06:50 PM

Not long ago i put dc2r sway bars on my dc4 with asr brace, The car corners so much better and a lot of the body roll was gone even with stock spring rates. The thicker rear sway bar keeps the car more even on the road allowing the car to rotate easier through corners. Straight line comfort is not effected at all.

na-118

10-01-2009, 04:21 PM

13mm stock em1 sway bar, can ytou also purcahse the asr subframe or would you need to get the ctr sway thanks

bennjamin

10-01-2009, 04:32 PM

13mm stock em1 sway bar, can ytou also purcahse the asr subframe or would you need to get the ctr sway thanks

you cannot fit a standard 13mm swaybar to the ASR kit. It is made to be used with a 22/23mm rear swaybar

RtN

10-01-2009, 05:38 PM

hmm it could fit on my friends 24mm also =] just had to find matching D brackets +bushings for 24mm to fit the asr.

bennjamin

10-01-2009, 05:40 PM

i suppose you could fit a 13mm swaybar too , with the large enough bush to sit in place with the same external dimensions of say a 22mm one

na-118

10-01-2009, 06:23 PM

soin order to fit the 13m one you will need to find the d brackets and bushings to suit the thickness right ben?

dahon

11-01-2009, 07:26 PM

y wuld you be rockin an asr with a 13mm bar anyways? its oem and im pretty sure your subframe will support it.
mine hasnt had anything wrong for the past year ive had it on...
the problem arises with thicker bars causing some subframe tearing thus the need for extra support like an asr brace...