[CU2] Advice sought for trouble with dealer

[nickxau]

Hi all,

Please bear with me as I summarise my experience in getting my first new car and where the situation is at at the moment.

14/01
Bought a new car (cobalt blue Euro, STD, AT) and picked it up. Inspected the car at the dealers and found a bad case of bird dropping on the roof of the car. Told the salesman and he said it'll be fixed at the next service (yes, I should've demanded a new car there and then but that's passed now and nothing can be done about it).

15/01
Did a proper inspection and there were A LOT of other bird dropping marks and it's not a simple wipe/wash off job. Dropped into the dealer to tell them my dissatisfaction and was told the service manager (SM) was away until 27/01.

28/01
Got a call to bring in car for SM to inspect. Took car in and SM agreed to fix it. Was told it'll take 2-3 days with courtesy car provided.

2/02 (last Monday)
Called up and SM confirmed courtesy car was ready for use. Got there and courtesy car was not available. Finally got a courtesy car to use but with practically NO petrol.

In between I called the dealership up to check on progress and each time the reply was: we'll call you when it's done.

10/02
Called up today and service department told me it'll be ready by THIS FRIDAY only after I pushed them!?!?!?

Now I'm extremely dissatisfied with the way the dealer is handling this issue and I feel that I've been kept in the dark in regards to the progress of this case. I tried to get the dealer to give me the contact details of the panel beater's so I could confirm the progress of the work but they refused and told me to speak with the SM directly tomorrow!?

I will be demanding a new car as it stands now because I was promised a 2-3 days turn around period but most importantly of all, I paid cash for a brand new car and not a re-sprayed one.

What advice can you guys offer me? Constructive comments appreciated. Criticisms will be taken into account.

[Sludge]

Mate I am surprised, from memory you used the same dealer as me (I won't name them, leave that up to you). But I had no problems at all, they delivered everything they promised.

In fact when I picked up my car the salesman noticed a small scratch on the front fender (I didn't even notice). He had them take it back and buff it out straight away, took less than ten minutes.

Anyway I am due back for my six month service in a couple of weeks, I'll let you know if there are any issues.

Hope it all gets resolved for you to your satisfaction.

[bennjamin]

please do not name the dealer.

Please also seek legal advice. Perhaps a formal letter of demand from a solicitor may get this dealer up to standards.

[nickxau]

Yes Sludge, I believe we got our cars from the same dealer. Guess all I can say is lucky you that you got such good treatment :(. Hope it's not because you got a top of the range and I got the standard!

My salesman tried to rub out the stain with a dry chamois in the 30°C+ heat!?

===

Thanks bennjamin. Hopefully I won't have to get a solicitor involved but if a push comes to shove...

[OMG.JAI xD]

Yes Sludge, I believe we got our cars from the same dealer. Guess all I can say is lucky you that you got such good treatment :(. Hope it's not because you got a top of the range and I got the standard!

My salesman tried to rub out the stain with a dry chamois in the 30°C+ heat!?

===

Thanks bennjamin. Hopefully I won't have to get a solicitor involved but if a push comes to shove...


Like .. lol.


Salesman arent very smart people.
Most arent anyway.
Bird poop cant just come off with a polish if its heavily damaged.
That stuff goes straight thru paint coats.

Demand a new car. With floor mats, bluetooth, satnav, 18" alloys, window tints, paint protection, underbody protection, and interior protection.

If not.
Lawsuit.

[markCivicVti]

Pics of the damaged paint work?

Seriously though, if it's damaged enough to need a respray then they would have to give you another car if it weren't for one key thing: the fact that you signed the pre-delivery inspection test.

However, take this up with Honda Australia if the dealer doesn't perform to standard. And if that doesn't work, a nice letter to Honda Japan apparently can do wonders. But only try one at a time. Your request is reasonable.

As Benny said, get legal advice... not ozhonda fanboy advice.

[nickxau]

haha OMG.JAI xD! That'd be pushing it a bit won't it? Though I wouldn't mind that outcome... :p

===

Pics to come in a few mins markCivicVti...

The key thing that you were referring to - officially called "Sales Quality Delivery System (QDS)" which I just read through is actually quiet vague. For e.g. there's a section for the salesperson to complete and one particular item for them to tick was "I have personally inspected the vehicle interior and exterior and it is correctly prepared to Honda 's Quality Vehicle standards"... I don't think so!
MY tick box was "Examined my new Honda with the salesperson" and that was it.

I have tried to call the SM this arvo without success but will try again tomorrow. I've also called HA after having no luck with the dealer's service department and apparently they'll have a word with the dealer and get back to me... in a couple of days.

[nickxau]

You gotta be a complete NOOB to not know that those bird dropping stains have been baking into the paintwork for a while!

This is the worst of them all but doesn't seem like it coz of the metallic paint and the arvo sun. It's actually brown/reddish in colour
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2564/img2191ki9.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2191ki9.jpg)

This is another stain.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4969/img2211st0.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2211st0.jpg)

This stain looks fresh but not even clay bar can get rid of it!
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2537/img2212nu1.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2212nu1.jpg)

[VIDSEURO]

You gotta be a complete NOOB to not know that those bird dropping stains have been baking into the paintwork for a while!

This is the worst of them all but doesn't seem like it coz of the metallic paint and the arvo sun. It's actually brown/reddish in colour
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2564/img2191ki9.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2191ki9.jpg)

This is another stain.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4969/img2211st0.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2211st0.jpg)

This stain looks fresh but not even clay bar can get rid of it!
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2537/img2212nu1.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2212nu1.jpg)


Hey Nik

Mate its very unfortunate that this occured to you.
Im very sorry you are going through this bad experience.
I can only suggest that you go to the Honda web site
and lodge a personal complaint using your VIN.
I have checked your photos and yes bird droppings are the worst, as its
acid from the bird that has burned the duco.
This may have been a innocent mistake by the dealer, but i think
they are giving you the royal run around.

Mate write a personal letter to the principal of the dealership or the general manager. Do not deal with the dickhead SM. He is making life hard for you.
Hand deliver the letter and explain to him with the way you are being treated.

If things get worse you may get some leagl advice but only as a last resort.

Anyhow best wishes Nik, its a shame this has happened, but mate be Frank and Fearless let the principal of the dealership know of your treatment.

If this does not help say you will name them on the Forums like this one.

[nickxau]

yeh, I knew new car buying can be stressful but this is WAY over the top IMO. Thanks for the words of advice VIDSEURO.

The saddest part is, I reckon I've driven the car for less than 48hrs total since I got it on 14/01???

I will certainly be handing a letter personally to someone more senior than the SM who can make a decision - in this case it seems like the dealer principal, correct?

My plan for tomorrow is to contact the SM first thing in the morning. Tell him to forget about respraying the car as it's no longer about the respray anymore and demand firmly for a new car of equal or lesser mileage (just for infos sake - 806kms when I dropped it off... not even 1000kms yet!) or a FULL refund of my purchase price. If he doesn't give me a satisfactory answer, I'll prepare a letter of demand and hand deliver it to the dealer principal (DP) in the arvo and hopefully the issue can be resolved to my liking at that level.

Anybody with a better suggestion?

Edit: ... and demand money back for the courtesy car fuel which I had to fork out!?!?!?

[buddah51au]

I believe your mistake was signing the pre delivery inspection, paint stained by bird droppings can't be easily fixed. If it came to a respray there are very few, if any spray painters who can match the factory finish

[nickxau]

I believe your mistake was signing the pre delivery inspection, paint stained by bird droppings can't be easily fixed. If it came to a respray there are very few, if any spray painters who can match the factory finish

yes, true, I knew I shouldn't have signed (let alone paid) for anything on that day but what's passed has passed and that's beyond the point now. What I'm fighting for now is my right to a brand new car and not a re-sprayed one and the fact that I was given promises which the dealership clearly couldn't deliver on and withholding information from me.

[defibros]

if its new, can you go through consumer protection?

[euromax]

Try the Department of Fair Trading and they will advise you on your course of action. Also let the dealer know that if they do not resolve this for you that you'll take it up with the Department of Fair Trading.

[tony1234]

Make an appointment to see the dealer principal.State to him clearly what you want(a new car is not an option)and tell him how you've been messed around,hear what he has to say,agree on a time frame for the problems to be rectified and state that if the car is not repaired in the agreed time to your satisfaction that you'll take the matter further.Be polite but firm.I'd be surprised if you don't get the matter sorted out after this.

[nickxau]

if its new, can you go through consumer protection?

yes defibros, it is new, well was new now... :(


Try the Department of Fair Trading and they will advise you on your course of action. Also let the dealer know that if they do not resolve this for you that you'll take it up with the Department of Fair Trading.

Thanks euromax. I called DoFT and they advised that I take this up with the dealer first and try to resolve it with them. If it doesn't work, they I can lodge a complaint.

[nickxau]

I called the SM this morning and unfortunately he wasn't able to give me an acceptable reply (which was expected) and told me to talk to my salesperson about a replacement... does that even sound right???

I told him who I'd address my letter of demand to and he told me it would be the sales manager. The SM's giving me the run around again isn't he???

[nickxau]

Make an appointment to see the dealer principal.State to him clearly what you want(a new car is not an option)and tell him how you've been messed around,hear what he has to say,agree on a time frame for the problems to be rectified and state that if the car is not repaired in the agreed time to your satisfaction that you'll take the matter further.Be polite but firm.I'd be surprised if you don't get the matter sorted out after this.

Thanks for your suggestion tony1234. Unfortunately it's no longer about how long the car's being resprayed for or what deadline I set them to get the car up to scratch. They'd already been given that chance.

I wouldn't have mind if they told me 1-2 weeks if that was the case but don't go telling me 2-3 days if it's not possible. I ring up 2 days later and they told me it's not ready - fine. Called up the following day, still not ready and told me (early) the following week, called up Tuesday and then they're telling me Friday!? If I call up Friday again what are they gonna tell me? Next week again??? I don't think so...

I was told by the SM that they only knew the car had to be "stripped to the metal" and resprayed last Friday. I asked him then what the car was doing for four days at the panel beaters? To which he replied they were trying to "buff and polish out the marks".

Now I'm no panel beater and I was trying to keep them out of this but wouldn't it be more economical and make more sense to spot test THEN decided if paint stripping was necessary? It takes them FOUR days to buff and polish the car??? I wouldn't even want them to touch the car anymore!

[tony1234]

Thanks for your suggestion tony1234. Unfortunately it's no longer about how long the car's being resprayed for or what deadline I set them to get the car up to scratch. They'd already been given that chance.

I wouldn't have mind if they told me 1-2 weeks if that was the case but don't go telling me 2-3 days if it's not possible. I ring up 2 days later and they told me it's not ready - fine. Called up the following day, still not ready and told me (early) the following week, called up Tuesday and then they're telling me Friday!? If I call up Friday again what are they gonna tell me? Next week again??? I don't think so...

I was told by the SM that they only knew the car had to be "stripped to the metal" and resprayed last Friday. I asked him then what the car was doing for four days at the panel beaters? To which he replied they were trying to "buff and polish out the marks".

Now I'm no panel beater and I was trying to keep them out of this but wouldn't it be more economical and make more sense to spot test THEN decided if paint stripping was necessary? It takes them FOUR days to buff and polish the car??? I wouldn't even want them to touch the car anymore!
If they respray the entire car(which looks likely)you'll want compensation for loss of resale value cause most people will know it's been resprayed.

[nickxau]

If they respray the entire car(which looks likely)you'll want compensation for loss of resale value cause most people will know it's been resprayed.

Well apparently it's only the roof of the car that they're doing.

Personally handed my letter of demand to the DP and SM today, will be mailing a copy to HA tomorrow. The DP asked me and the SM into his office to explain the situation.

Won't bore you guys with the minute details but basically the DP said the car WILL be ready this Friday and for me to inspect it first and if I don't like it then we'll work something out. That was not my demand in the letter btw...

[tony1234]

Well apparently it's only the roof of the car that they're doing.

Personally handed my letter of demand to the DP and SM today, will be mailing a copy to HA tomorrow. The DP asked me and the SM into his office to explain the situation.

Won't bore you guys with the minute details but basically the DP said the car WILL be ready this Friday and for me to inspect it first and if I don't like it then we'll work something out. That was not my demand in the letter btw...
If it's only the roof thats not too bad.Make sure its done by a good body shop and a spraypainter that knows what he's doing.

[euromax]

Mate I feel for you. It's a brand new car and a respray from no fault of yours is not acceptable. Or the dealer must compensate in other ways.

[buddah51au]

There is no way a respray, or even a partial respray can be as good as the original paint job, it is basically an impossibility. It may look good initially, but 1 or 2 years down the track you will pick the difference.

In saying that, there are many NEW CARS that have paint repairs due to damage in transport and owners never know about it untill it is too late.

If, as you say, they will only be respraying the roof, the only correct way to do this is by removing the front & rear windows. You can just about bet your life this did not happen. Instead they would have masked around the window in which case there will be an edge to the paint & the possibility of paint peeling back from that edge in the future.

[nickxau]

Thanks for all the advice and information so far guys and/or girls, it is very much appreciated. :D

@tony1234 - apparently according to the dealer the smash repairer (referred by them as "panel beaters") is "very good" and "all their repair work is done by them" and that "I'd be very satisfied with the results". My research suggests otherwise and their workshop viewed from Google Street View looks very... "if-fy"? :confused: and if they really were that good, they would've realised straight away the extent of the damage and straight away use the appropriate method to correct the problem instead of (according to the SM) try to "buff and polish" the marks and failing that "peel away the clear coat and try again" and failing that "strip it down to the metal and re-spray".

@euromax - that is exactly what I'm fighting for. I didn't pay my hard earned cash for a "new" car to be resprayed and I DEFINATELY didn't pay my hard earned cash for a second hand car~!

@buddah51au - when I met with the DP that's exactly what he told me: it's not uncommon to respray new cars due to scratches caused during transportation and storage. But seriously, damage so great that it warrants a strip down and respray??? That's not gonna happen to MY car~! They told me that the work would carry a lifetime warranty but PFFFT... as if I care after what you've said.

[nickxau]

UPDATE: I was told by the DP this arvo that a refund will NOT be given and to take the matter to the DoFT.

Question is: I was recommended by the DoFT to lodge a complaint with the
Consumer, Trader & Tenancy Tribunal. Does anyone know the difference between the DoFT and the CTTT? They seem to do the same thing.

[buddah51au]

I hate to say it and I know many people don't realise the importance of the pre delivery inspection a buyer must sign stating he is happy with the car, but once you sign it I don't believe there is much you can do.

Personally, i spend at least an hour going over every panel, both in the sun & the shade, go over everything with a fine tooth comb so to say. Inspect all interior trims for marks, absolutely every item you can visibly see.

A lot of people to their detriment are over excited about picking up their new car and just give it a quick look over, sign the inspection report, then there is no way out....you own the car.

I am sorry to say i think your stuck with it, but hopefully you have learnt a good lesson for the future, & others on this forum also learn.

To the experienced eye it is always possible to pick a respray, & even easier to pick a partial respray.

[nickxau]

I see... but clearly in this case the damage had already been done prior to me picking up the car and in fact, it's been there for a while to have caused such damage. Furthermore, I had pointed out specifically that I wasn't happy with a particular spot at the time of pickup and yes I shouldn't have driven the car away that day but they didn't provide me with an acceptable solution at the time.

To add to that, someone from the dealership had ticked that they had inspected the car's paintwork (along with other checks) and had approved of its condition (which clearly was not acceptable) and the salesperson had also ticked their part of the QDS form indicating that they had checked the condition of both the interior and exterior. Had they seen those markings (which IMO is pretty hard to miss if they were actually checking) but still went ahead and ticked the item then that to me is deception.

[buddah51au]

I don't want to rave on about the subject & I feel for you, but a salesmans job is to get cars out the door, basically at all costs. I would never trust a salesman under any circumstances.

I spent many years working in Dealerships & know how they operate. Part of the process of signing for a new car is you need to sign a pre delivery inspection stating that your happy with the car which is why you need to spend considerable time INSPECTING EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, once you sign it & drive the car away you own it, regardless of any verbal, undocumented statements.

I learnt this lesson the hard way myself many years ago with a paint problem that was never repaired to my satisfaction.

[euromax]

Take it up with the CTTT if that's what the DoFT advise you. Even if after signing the Delivery form and there are geniune faults, the dealer must make good the repair and replacement. Case of a guy who found scratches on his car and the dealer rectify it on the 1000kms service. I had a damaged front right speaker and was replaced at the 1000kms service.

My advice is to get legal advice - any advice you get here is just someone's opinion ie their 2 cents worth. It's just going to confuse you. Good luck mate and hope you get a satisfying outcome.

[denot]

good advice ppl... i will pickup mine tomorrow and I will make sure not to put heart over my head... but hopefully the car is ok...

[tim-e]

Make an appointment to see the dealer principal.State to him clearly what you want(a new car is not an option)and tell him how you've been messed around,hear what he has to say,agree on a time frame for the problems to be rectified and state that if the car is not repaired in the agreed time to your satisfaction that you'll take the matter further.Be polite but firm.I'd be surprised if you don't get the matter sorted out after this.
I'd take a solicitor with me too.

[tony1234]

I see... but clearly in this case the damage had already been done prior to me picking up the car and in fact, it's been there for a while to have caused such damage. Furthermore, I had pointed out specifically that I wasn't happy with a particular spot at the time of pickup and yes I shouldn't have driven the car away that day but they didn't provide me with an acceptable solution at the time.

To add to that, someone from the dealership had ticked that they had inspected the car's paintwork (along with other checks) and had approved of its condition (which clearly was not acceptable) and the salesperson had also ticked their part of the QDS form indicating that they had checked the condition of both the interior and exterior. Had they seen those markings (which IMO is pretty hard to miss if they were actually checking) but still went ahead and ticked the item then that to me is deception.
Ask the DP how he'd feel if he was in your situation.Would he like to have taken delivery of a car that had paint damage that you describe.Ask him wouldnt' he feel ripped off and cheated?Morally they have an obligation to replace the car.Legally it's another story.Ask him a few times.

[albii]

Ok here goes, i purchased a Mazda Bravo V6 ute brand new in 06 and found there to be quite a few paint faults. I showed this to the dealer principal and he in turn called Mazda Aust and someone flew to Brisbane to investigate the matter.
After a bit of conversation tennis ,i told them i had come to the conclusion that if i don't get what i had paid for (being a new car and not a resprayed one) and that i regarded Mazda as a very reputable brand , that i would take it further and seek a solicitor to act on my behalf .
After owning the car for 4000km it was subsequently replaced with another of same spec with 0km onthe clock.
Having said that, Mazda went on to say that this was only the second time they had replaced a vehicle in Australia.

[nickxau]

@buddah51au - unfortunately your words aren't very encouraging but I accept your words of experience and I thank you for them. At least it makes me feel better now that I know I'm not the only one that got ripped off in such a way. Having said that however, the battle's not over yet!!!

@euromax - I did get legal advice from a solicitor... he told me to go to the CTTT as well so I think that's the best approach. For those that are also wondering, difference b/w DoFT (from here on referred to as the Office of Fair Trading or OoFT - coz that's what they're called) and CTTT is that the CTTT used to be a division of the OoFT but now they've branched out and they deal in matters under the following categories: Tenancy, Social Housing, Home Building, Strata & Community Schemes, Retirement Villages, Residential Parks, Motor Vehicles, General and Commercial - if that makes sense.
Sorry to hear about your speaker problem but at least it got fixed and it was an easy fix, not like mine. I hope NO ONE has to go through what I'm going through now.

@denot - my word of advice, inspect your car like it's a crime scene when you pickup your car. No offence but if you haven't got a good eye, take someone who has with you. Don't try to be smart (like me) and try to surprise everyone with your new car and go for the pickup alone. If you absolutely can't take someone with you, get the salesperson to piss off after he's shown you how your car's buttons works (DUH~!) and inspect each and every panel (as buddah51au suggested) with great care. I'm usually a VERY pedantic kind of person but even I was a fool and was overwhelmed by the joy of owning a new car for the first time that I overlooked the car inspection. Now look what's come back to haunt me....

Just having a bit of a whinge here but now I've got no car to drive my gf with this Valentine's Day (we live ~45mins apart), no car to pickup my family with this month when they come here from overseas and to add insult to injury, they took my courtesy car back!?!?!? NOT happy~!!!
:thumbdwn:

[nickxau]

@tim-e - good advice there but unfortunately solicitors aren't on-call for me when I need them (w/o paying a premium at least) coz I'm using up all my lunchtime every single time I go to the dealership.

@tony1234 - although I didn't repeat my question over and over again to him, I DID in fact ask the DP if HE would accept a car, that he's paid nearly $40k for and saved up tireless for, and expect it to be a brand NEW car, only to find out that it's got paint defects and needs the WHOLE roof to be stripped of paint and re-sprayed and he very confidently replied yes and went on further to say that it's "not uncommon for new cars to need to be re-sprayed due to transport and storage"??? Either morally he's feeling bad afterwards (I HOPE!) or he doesn't have a heart... :eek:

@albii - you must be one lucky bugger~! Although I've sent HA a copy of my letter of demand, they are yet to take any action or contact me in regards to this matter. Sometimes it really makes me think whether I should've got a Mazda6 instead in the first place... is the Euro really what it's hyped up to be??? Pinging, creaking in the boot, faulty speaker, seatbelt noise, parcel shelf noise, centre dash noise... someone remind me why it won Wheels COTY again?

[tony1234]

@tim-e - good advice there but unfortunately solicitors aren't on-call for me when I need them (w/o paying a premium at least) coz I'm using up all my lunchtime every single time I go to the dealership.

@tony1234 - although I didn't repeat my question over and over again to him, I DID in fact ask the DP if HE would accept a car, that he's paid nearly $40k for and saved up tireless for, and expect it to be a brand NEW car, only to find out that it's got paint defects and needs the WHOLE roof to be stripped of paint and re-sprayed and he very confidently replied yes and went on further to say that it's "not uncommon for new cars to need to be re-sprayed due to transport and storage"??? Either morally he's feeling bad afterwards (I HOPE!) or he doesn't have a heart... :eek:

@albii - you must be one lucky bugger~! Although I've sent HA a copy of my letter of demand, they are yet to take any action or contact me in regards to this matter. Sometimes it really makes me think whether I should've got a Mazda6 instead in the first place... is the Euro really what it's hyped up to be??? Pinging, creaking in the boot, faulty speaker, seatbelt noise, parcel shelf noise, centre dash noise... someone remind me why it won Wheels COTY again?
They took your courtesy car back.WTF!I wouldnt have given it back.i'd have told them they get it back when my NEW(joke)car is fixed to my satisfaction.

[nickxau]

They took your courtesy car back.WTF!I wouldnt have given it back.i'd have told them they get it back when my NEW(joke)car is fixed to my satisfaction.

I wouldn't have given it back as well but they insisted that "my" car was ready and I didn't want to get into another legal battle over a crappy Jazz GLi (YES! they lent me a Jazz - OH the insult!) so I just returned it to them.

[albii]

Looks like to me that they're calling all the shots, which means you wont get the outcome you're looking for.

[VTECACCORD]

Man a professional detailer would have been able to fix it for less than 350.

All this headache, is it worth it ?

[albii]

Man a professional detailer would have been able to fix it for less than 350.

All this headache, is it worth it ?

Exactly....though if all else fails, just smash his face in.

[tony1234]

Exactly....though if all else fails, just smash his face in.
You'd feel like doing that!!

[nickxau]

All this headache, is it worth it ?

It's definately not and what I'm arguing for is that they're doing this to my brand new car.

[nickxau]

Exactly....though if all else fails, just smash his face in.

That's the best advice I've had so far~! :cool:

[H.T]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune with your Euro, we are going through a similar experience.

[Type R Positive]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune with your Euro, we are going through a similar experience.
Do tell.

[H.T]

Not sure if I posted it in the right section.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107351

[Type R Positive]

Not sure if I posted it in the right section.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107351
Sounds pretty bad mate. :eek:

Speak to the manager mate, tell them you want them to pay for a professional detailer to fix it.

Car should be immaculate for hand over. :thumbsup:

[The X Man]

Good luck getting Honda Australia to do anything for you. They too are money hungry pigs like most of the dealers.

It's just a shame there are no lemon laws or other governing laws that protect the buyers of motor cars these days. The dealers all know what they can get away with and exploit this to the tenths degree.

That said i had a swag of issues with my new Euro when i bought it last year and it took a lot of perseverance and pressure to get it all sorted. The dealer is now ultra responsive and more then eager to help out with any issues i have with my car which is very good.

[nickxau]

You are right The X Man, HA does not give a shite that one of their dealers is selling their brand like that. When I called them up they actually asked me in return: what were you expecting from this phone call? Like, WTF? :confused:

To those following my story, I had given up the fight for my right to a refund/new car. I had everything going for me, even the Motor Traders Act 1974, section 24, part 7 but after working everything out, I will be the one at loss even if they gave me a full refund or a new car.

I had time constraints and monetary loses so in the end I just picked up my re-sprayed car TODAY and I'll just have to make the most of it.

My word of advice to other people out there buying their first new car: CHECK THE DAMN CAR ALL OVER BEFORE YOU SIGN ANYTHING, LET ALONE PAY FOR ANYTHING! IT'S GONNA BE YOUR DAMN CAR!

[buddah51au]

You are right The X Man, HA does not give a shite that one of their dealers is selling their brand like that. When I called them up they actually asked me in return: what were you expecting from this phone call? Like, WTF? :confused:

To those following my story, I had given up the fight for my right to a refund/new car. I had everything going for me, even the Motor Traders Act 1974, section 24, part 7 but after working everything out, I will be the one at loss even if they gave me a full refund or a new car.

I had time constraints and monetary loses so in the end I just picked up my re-sprayed car TODAY and I'll just have to make the most of it.

My word of advice to other people out there buying their first new car: CHECK THE DAMN CAR ALL OVER BEFORE YOU SIGN ANYTHING, LET ALONE PAY FOR ANYTHING! IT'S GONNA BE YOUR DAMN CAR!

while i do understand how disappointed you are you have learnt a valuable lesson the hard way. All I can suggest now is to keep a very close eye on the repair, and at the slightest hint of any problem, paint blemishes or if you notice the slightest difference in the colour of the paint under different light conditions take it straight back.

But in saying that you would be shocked if you knew how many new cars had paint repairs prior to being sold. Unfortunately many people don't know what to look for and how to pick a partial respray, but to the trained eye it is reasonably simple.

I hope it gives you no further problems, if i were you I would give the car a thorough polish and apply a quality sealant for added protection.

[SPQR]

.....you would be shocked if you knew how many new cars had paint repairs prior to being sold.....

:thumbsup:

Very true. One of my previous tenants was a panel shop. Their bread and butter was repairing "new cars" from several dealers before the cars were sold to the public as "new cars".

[H.T]

nickxau, whilst I don't know your personal position, I would have kept pushing for a refund, the damage to your car sounded more extensive than the problems I am having with my cars paint. But if you were happy with the repair, as mentioned above keep an eye on the paint, also make sure you invest in quality products to wash/wax the car with, and take your time cleaning it.

No real progress to report on mine, not enough time in the day.

[buddah51au]

nickxau, whilst I don't know your personal position, I would have kept pushing for a refund, the damage to your car sounded more extensive than the problems I am having with my cars paint. But if you were happy with the repair, as mentioned above keep an eye on the paint, also make sure you invest in quality products to wash/wax the car with, and take your time cleaning it.

To add, I received the same reply from HA on the phone, and was told that I would receive a return call in 48 hours, that was four days ago....

They couldn't tell me from who, give me any direct numbers, and when I asked for a reference I was advised that they don't give them out, when I asked why not, there was a pause of silence and no answer.

I can safely say that after this experience, this will be the first and last Honda I ever buy!

In reference to the last Paragraph, it doesn't matter if you buy a cheap Kia, a Mercedes or anything in between, paint repairs and or partial resprays are part of the New Car Business due to transport damage, industrial fallout, etc. You need to have a keen eye and thoroughly inspect a car prior to signing the purchace papers.

The only possible exception to the above is some expensive exotic cars that arrive at dealerships with a thick plastic material covering all painted surfaces. Than with the amount of markup they have in the car, they always have a professional detail done to the car prior to sale.

[markCivicVti]

I can safely say that after this experience, this will be the first and last Honda I ever buy!

Lies!! All LIES!! It's your second Honda! :wave: :p

[buddah51au]

Lies!! All LIES!! It's your second Honda! :wave: :p

I was relying to nickxau, I have been in the motor game for more years then i care to remember, And while Honda's aren't perfect, I believe they have some of the best cars in their price range. I will go even further and say I can't thing of a better car under 60K to compete with the Euro.

[tony1234]

The problems that you guys are having with the CU2 seem to be typical of a new release model.in another year or 2 they should be all ironed out and it should be the car that all of us expect from Honda.

[SPQR]

The problems that you guys are having with the CU2 seem to be typical of a new release model.in another year or 2 they should be all ironed out and it should be the car that all of us expect from Honda.

As I've said before, the Accord (Euro) has only just been released in Japan; much later than everywhere else because they're using the rest of the world as guinea pigs to sort out the problems. Imagine Honda releasing a flawed car in their home market. The Honda Head Honchos would Have to commit Hara-kiri! Hah!

[buddah51au]

As I've said before, the Accord (Euro) has only just been released in Japan; much later than everywhere else because they're using the rest of the world as guinea pigs to sort out the problems. Imagine Honda releasing a flawed car in their home market. The Honda Head Honchos would Have to commit Hara-kiri! Hah!

I can't speak for others but i can say that after 4,500km in my CU2 I have no problems whatsoever. I find it to be a great car with unbelievable economy. I personally know of 2 other CU2 owners who are more than happy with their cars.

I can't see how a flawed car could possibly win car of the year. The way they drive the cars during the selection process is way beyond what any sane owner would do to their own cars.

I can't see how you can justify that comment, nor can I understand how such comments are useful on this forum.

[Type R Positive]

Nah, it's because Honda make most of their profits overseas.
They make the biggest profit in the USA, and guess which country got the Euro first???

[H.T]

I can't see how a flawed car could possibly win car of the year. The way they drive the cars during the selection process is way beyond what any sane owner would do to their own cars.



Not trying to stir the pot here further, but do you really think that the vehicle they used for the tests was plucked from one of the Dealerships?...

Or do you think it was provided after beeing subject to a number of inspections and checked over a number of times to make sure it was perfect prior to being delivered for testing?

I know if I was entering a competition I would ensure that I put my best foot forward...

[buddah51au]

Not trying to stir the pot here further, but do you really think that the vehicle they used for the tests was plucked from one of the Dealerships?...

Or do you think it was provided after beeing subject to a number of inspections and checked over a number of times to make sure it was perfect prior to being delivered for testing?

I know if I was entering a competition I would ensure that I put my best foot forward...


I could & would love to give a detailed reply to this, but time and space is against me. Long ago I worked at the Head Office of a Company & part of my job was choosing Cars from the compound & preparing them for Press Release
(Road Tests). There is a certain process we went through & that process would be similar today to what it was then, but no doubt with a few differences. We used to spend about 1 week on a car prior to press release.

As quality control from the manufacturer is far better these days I don't believe there is as great a difference between individual cars these days as there used to be.

[tim-e]

@tim-e - good advice there but unfortunately solicitors aren't on-call for me when I need them (w/o paying a premium at least) coz I'm using up all my lunchtime every single time I go to the dealership.
You could always book a solicitor to meet you there at a certain time, and book a meeting with the dealer principal, saying at the time that you are bringing the solicitor with you. Not ragging on you at all, but the only problem with the idea is that it'll probably cost a smidgen more to have the solicitor go out of his or her office.

When you've paid over $30K for a car, it's definitely worth the money and effort to have legal representation there.

[SPQR]

As I've said before, the Accord (Euro) has only just been released in Japan; much later than everywhere else because they're using the rest of the world as guinea pigs to sort out the problems. Imagine Honda releasing a flawed car in their home market. The Honda Head Honchos would Have to commit Hara-kiri! Hah!


I can't speak for others but i can say that after 4,500km in my CU2 I have no problems whatsoever. I find it to be a great car with unbelievable economy. I personally know of 2 other CU2 owners who are more than happy with their cars.

I can't see how a flawed car could possibly win car of the year. The way they drive the cars during the selection process is way beyond what any sane owner would do to their own cars.

I can't see how you can justify that comment, nor can I understand how such comments are useful on this forum.

My comment was intended to be taken with a pinch of salt; if you'd noticed my play with alliteration in my last two sentences and my final exultation with exclamation! And it is my impression that you we not going to buy another Honda ever again. I have had five Honda cars so far and I have every intention to have early buyers have all the problems first and wait until the car is properly sorted before I buy one. Realistically, the CU2 is a superb, well featured car that needs some ironing out. And now, if a V6 version is a possibility, then it's icing on the cake.

I like the car: I just want it to be as perfect as the Honda promise.

[albii]

Dude seriously, i would take legal action or just not go away as the car being resprayed has added to devaluing it come resale time. Don't take this shit from them, as i know for as fact they have lost a previous battle to not replace a brand new car with paint issues to someone i know. The problem is it went all the way to court and honda lost.

[bk212]

I can't speak for others but i can say that after 4,500km in my CU2 I have no problems whatsoever. I find it to be a great car with unbelievable economy. I personally know of 2 other CU2 owners who are more than happy with their cars.

I can't see how a flawed car could possibly win car of the year. The way they drive the cars during the selection process is way beyond what any sane owner would do to their own cars.

I can't see how you can justify that comment, nor can I understand how such comments are useful on this forum.

Honda themselves have acknowledged that there is a flaw with some CU2's in relation to this so-called "pinging" issue. I have this noise and it is annoying enough that if I had my time again I would have bought a different brand of car. I don't know personally of others with the problem but it's pretty clear from this forum that it is relatively common.

In my opinion a flawed car DID win COTY!

[buddah51au]

Honda themselves have acknowledged that there is a flaw with some CU2's in relation to this so-called "pinging" issue. I have this noise and it is annoying enough that if I had my time again I would have bought a different brand of car. I don't know personally of others with the problem but it's pretty clear from this forum that it is relatively common.

In my opinion a flawed car DID win COTY!

Could you please name a so called perfect car as I don't think there is such a thing, be it a Kia Rio or an F430 ferrari that is well known for catching fire under certain driving conditions.

In the sub 60K area I don't believe anything comes close to a Euro.

By the way, it is not a pinging problem, more likely a timing chain tensioner problem.

[bk212]

By the way, it is not a pinging problem, more likely a timing chain tensioner problem.

That's why I called it a "so-called" pinging problem. According to Honda it is a "combustion sound" when the piston is on a downstroke.

I never said I could name a perfect car. I was simply responding to your comment that you didn't believe a flawed car could win COTY; I said I think one did (and Honda have agreed there is a problem). I guess it comes down to whether you think this problem is a "flaw" or not.

I agree that the Euro is fantastic value for a sub-$60k car - that's why I bought one. You're lucky your car doesn't have this noise but for those of us that do have it, it is a very real problem.

[VIDSEURO]

Could you please name a so called perfect car as I don't think there is such a thing, be it a Kia Rio or an F430 ferrari that is well know for catching fire under certain driving conditions.

In the sub 60K area I don't believe anything comes close to a Euro.

By the way, it is not a pinging problem, more likely a timing chain tensioner problem.

Hey Buddah

Look man lets leave it to HA to solve this one.
You cannot assume its a timing chain issue, Honda have said its a post combustion noise, i have never heard of this term.
This acceleration rattle, or ping whaever it is happens when the car is under load. My car has the same issue and i can hardle wait for the software fix.
If it doesnt work then HONDA will hae egg on its face.
Mate i paid $41,000 i dont want rattles, pinging or any crap like that.
Especially from a car that was awarded COTY.
Mate yes i do like the Euro very much but this has taken the gloss of the purchase.....
I just turn the radio up

[euromax]

My sympathies to those of you having this so call 'ping' issue. My car doesn't have it and it's done 8000 kms since 8th Jan. It's a great car and I still enjoy driving it very much.

[buddah51au]

As i have said previously, Honda Australia's hands are tied until Honda in Japan come up with a fix. Personally I think it would be an annoying problem to have, but it is not a detrimental problem & I have no doubt it will be cured.

There is always a risk involved in buying the first of a new model, and that risk is increased when there is a redesign of the engine as well. Basically the car has 1 problem that effects a percentage of mostly early build models. 1 problem only with a completely new design to me is a good effort. Many cars we buy, regardless of price have flaws and problems that are never rectified in a complete model run.

[Joystick]

I've got the pinging issue as well but will just have to wait for the fix. :(

I'm seriously thinking about dynoing my car before hand though....

[buddah51au]

I think it would be interesting to see if the noise showed up under dyno conditions. bonnet up, engine noise and noise from the rollers i believe it could be hard to detect, but definitely worth a try. You would also have a base line figure after say 3 runs.

A repeat dyno (on the same machine) after the fix comes out would be interesting to compare figures, as long as ambient temperature was the same.

My only other thought would be 5000 + km before a dyno run as they can really load up the engine which i would not want to do on a low milage unit.