K series NA or B series Turbo???

[jayeg]

Hi,
Im getting onto my full licence soon so i have a motor budget of about 10-15g just on motor & breaks and everything else inc suspension and interior separate,
So i ant decide between K series NA and B series Turbo i want to hear everyones opinions if you have own one or both! Which is better, the base motor for B series would be B18c, i know NA K series is reliable but can Turbo be reliable too???
Which would quicker on street/drag??
For $15800 i was quoted for B18c everything inc ecu, motor and exhaust i would make safely 280kws and for K swap around 15g.
I know that both are fast but i just am after opinions and ideas :)

[EG5]

kw@wheels is not the only things to be considered down the 1/4 mile.

[didz]

If u want to go faster down the straight i would recommend buying a skyline and doing that up with the remaining money.

[jayeg]

i'm a vtec man only honda's for me and i dont think on my budget i could build a skyline faster then a eg with k20 or b series turbo and i wanna beat people in a car they dont think is going to be fast every body thinks skylines are fast

[Paul1985]

N/A K-series.

If you wanna boost later on down the line, boost the K.

That would be FTW.

You wouldnt need to boost it anyway.

[damienm]

N/A K-series.

If you wanna boost later on down the line, boost the K.

That would be FTW.

You wouldnt need to boost it anyway.

lol if he boosted a k series the eg would just be shredding his tyres

[Paul1985]

Thats true. lol.

[Moey.C]

personally i think b18c7 turbo....

u will probably have traction problems but thats my opinion... coz u can always upgrade the turbo or high flow it etc... lots more mods to a turbo enine than to a N/A

good luck.. watever u do put ur car in the build section

[jayeg]

thanks for the help its hard to choose, both fun and both quick

[Sexc86]

Obviously a K20 is a dam good platform full stop N/A, however with a Forced Induction application you will be able to increase your power output with much less money then a Naturally aspirated application and you car wont remain a pig to drive (lumpy cams etc).

I vote

Boosted B18Cr > K20 N/a

Of course there are pros and cons with both paths.

[EG5]

Obviously a K20 is a dam good platform full stop N/A, however with a Forced Induction application you will be able to increase your power output with much less money then a Naturally aspirated application and you car wont remain a pig to drive (lumpy cams etc).

I vote

Boosted B18Cr > K20 N/a

Of course there are pros and cons with both paths.

Tried B18CR + boost couple years ago on our EG hatch
t28 turbo + 7 psi boost
150kw@wheels.

I still prefer Allmotor K20 or K24A swap on EG hatch

[B20NA]

Boost will net you more power and less expensive but i have to agree with N/A K20/24 becuase of traction and driveability

[myztery]

with the experience i have had with boost and my mates b20 both with similar setup power,weight,tires, suspension

boost has alot more top end by the time you have reached 100 clicks you still have another 120 clicks to go with ease ( boost )

n/a i would more likely use in the track department, mainly it does get rid of lag

in my opinion i.d boost a b/series, alot cheaper. Or even better boost the k i know it can happen with the budget you have

[fatboyz39]

I would boost the B series.

[pengpeng]

get a CBR1000 with minior mod, will get 10s and around 300kmh for the same amount of money.. :)

[GTRVspec95]

Put the K series in it and set it up for track racing ...

you won't look back

[joe.teg]

track racing: N/A K SERIES
drag racing: Boosted B18CR or Boosted K20/24 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[jayeg]

but what about on a day to day basis will be used everyday .
with turbo motor wouldnt last as long as k series and for the same budget what would be the 1/4 mile time difference if both had same setup up full trim and semi's i no k's can run mid to high 12's ive seen i lot of eg with turbo b's only run low to mid 13's i no depends on setup but for my budget it's not going to be fully built and on the street eg with a k is still gunna beat a lot of things of the line

[IEVAQ8]

i drive my dc2r, b18c7 + boost daily...............standard engine on 7.5psi makes a health and very very reliable 239kw at the wheels.......................and has so far ran a 12.88 at 113mph in street trim

[beeza]

Go Jay!!

[blackeuro]

that doesn't sound right, we see k20 making 150 something kw and do similar times on street trim...

also see way too many turbo vtec blow up and having nagging issues...the percentage compared to NA is just astounding...and most of these I saw only street drive, never see drag/circuit...

so if u want reliable and usable power stick to na k20..

[FastFwd]

I got b16a2 in my eg fully built to run 25psi...i've only taken it to 7psi so far and rebuilding it atm (new rings and bearings) but i will only ever take it to 20psi as its not that safe to go past that. This is my third rebuild in 3 or so years since ive gone turbo and trust me i would be more than happy to run a K Series in my EG over my Boosted b16a2 anyday. With boost there is soo many different driving setups, sized turbo's with earlier spool less power and later spool more power etc. Its hard to get the right power curve you like. With a k series, its just all motor. Power will always be similar from the getgo to redline and it will always be there when you wanna play with it. With boost its much different.

There is much more potential power in a boosted b series but if you did quite a few NA modds to a K24 in an eg your bound to hit mid 12's. and to me all motor 12's sounds much better than a boosted b series.

K24 will last 200,000kms+
Boosted B can last from 5,000 - 100,000kms depending on your build setup, your turbo setup, your tune, your fuel. So many variables.

[YBOOST]

i think k20/k24 for now then you can always boost the K later

[FastFwd]

i think k20/k24 for now then you can always boost the K later

I second that.

[joe.teg]

the engine will not last if u give it a thrashing with overly high amounts of boost for the street... run a streetable amount of boost with a streetable tune, install a boost controller with a low and a high boost setting and when it comes time for track day switch over to high boost and have some fun... if ur looking for blisteringly quick times dont go for a street car also... very very fast times is not very streetable... i believe with the right srtup ull get quick times with a very reliable and streetable car

[beeza]

High boost can be as simple as a button on the steering wheel.

[chunky]

^ lulz
ofcourse

[beeza]

^ lulz
ofcourse

Well,I only found out when I watch a high octane dvd the other night :D

You know the one where they spend $16K on that honda,with high and low boost and it kicks ass! at the 1/4!!

Here it is!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQEa11R3ITA)

Kamikaze!!!

[rpm boy]

... how much of a drag car is this thing going to be, i know yonas is forever changing brakes for the runs and then putting it back to stock for his car and thats just to save a little weight. imo k series neways, especially if u do a high comp k24 with k20 head :) and u will be able to do continuous runs all nite, too much hastles with turbo etc especially if your using it on the street as well...but its more what you prefer driving and can drive well so do some research and u will get ur answer......then go to jdm yard and get all the krudd stuff :P

[Benson]

For a budget of 15k, i would do a Bseries turbo for the time being. If you can get the K-series for cheap then i would chose the K package only for that reason. Other than that, B-series is so much cheaper to build. Or do a B20vtec like us and run 12's

[EG5]

you got $15k just to do mods only or incl buying the car?

[YBOOST]

For a budget of 15k, i would do a Bseries turbo for the time being. If you can get the K-series for cheap then i would chose the K package only for that reason. Other than that, B-series is so much cheaper to build. Or do a B20vtec like us and run 12's

B20 or H2B sound like good options to consider...

[VTi_b0i]

ive got a boosted b18c and i love it :D

[jayeg]

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

[joe.teg]

Boosted b18cr stroked to 2l

[FastFwd]

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

So basically steet 99.5% of the time and 0.5% drag.

10% would mean that you would be dragging your car every tenth drive...

[joe.teg]

So basically steet 99.5% of the time and 0.5% drag.

10% would mean that you would be dragging your car every tenth drive...

thats a lot of track time for a "street" car lmao!:p

[jayeg]

haha you no what i meant a wicked Wednesday every month or every couple of weeks i will be new to drag racing i want to get into the 12's so i will need a few runs before i get the times am after

[GTRVspec95]

With whats been said I'm firming up my opinion to a K20 swap.

I don't think the OP has the restraint/cash to run a boosted B series daily, at least with the K20 swap it should be almost utter reliability no matter what you do with the engine provided that you service it regularly.

The K20 should also be a better engine to drive around regularly as well.

[EG5]

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

K SWAP it!:thumbsup:
Get 400km's or so per full tank of fuel too LOL
Stock K24A3 into EG can run 11.82sec
I did it already

[beeza]

Talking about reliability...how reliable would say a b18c be if you rebuilt it with a full gasket kit,replaced valve seals and anything else that needs doing while it was opened up?

The reason I ask is,it was mentioned on here that b-series are getting on in age now and that it's worth looking at K-series now for the reliability factor.

Is there any truth to this or not?

Would 16-18k sounds right for a k swap into an EK?

[jayeg]

GTRVspec95 your are right i dont think i would have the cash to run a built b as a daily it's gunna send me broke just to do this but i wanna have a least one nice car,
and it's alot of money but i really like eg with kswaps might not be the fastest car out there but for me iv'e currently got a d15b motor and i have owned a b16a but k series is on a another level again thanks for all the help

[xtercii]

yeah k has very good fuel economy, my k20a gave more than 300km from 21L city driving...crazy efficiency...

[GTRVspec95]

GTRVspec95 your are right i dont think i would have the cash to run a built b as a daily it's gunna send me broke just to do this but i wanna have a least one nice car,
and it's alot of money but i really like eg with kswaps might not be the fastest car out there but for me iv'e currently got a d15b motor and i have owned a b16a but k series is on a another level again thanks for all the help

Consider yourself lucky though as some of us could only afford B18C transplants :p

You're probably going to be surprised at how quick a K swap transplant is anyways ... and there is always Hondata later on :cool:

[jayeg]

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

[aramiK]

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

I like the sound of that brother A++

I've been considering the same thing, I get my fulls in about 10 months or so and have almost finished paying off my loan.. (random shit I did when I was a bit younger lol)

Anyways, I'd go kseries man ~ def.

If your going to boost, just save another 15k and buy an evo 9..

kseries in eg = fun.

I'm kind of tossing up between these two options myself.

It's hard.

[beeza]

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

U nailed that man!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think 'a few' of us on here fit into that catagory!! :cool:

[Phased]

Supercharged K24 :eek: :p

[aramiK]

Supercharged K24 :eek: :p

It appears the budget just went from 15,000 to about 30,000..

[Phased]

It appears the budget just went from 15,000 to about 30,000..

Ok, we will come to a compromise...

Supercharged H22! XD :p

[FastFwd]

nah i would go k24a na with mods. Reliable quick and alot of torque to play with but yeh if its only a h22a or b18 you want then go h22a turbo or super charged.

[NightKids]

I've always wondered this, what's gonna happen when you chuck a engine in that's worth more than the car and you have an accident?

Do insurance companies cover the cost of the engine? I'd hate to see 15K go down the drain.

[beeza]

I'm pretty sure if you pay more to insure it,you can but it can be pricy but insurance is that,insurance.

Do any insurance companies insure a daily car on the track?

[Paul1985]

Well if you have a K24A in your car without engineers cert and telling your insurance company then im sure it wont be insured as its not legal.

Also, you could have an agreed value on your car. Insurance price will be through the roof but you could keep it insured...

Another thing to think of... In an accident, how often do you damage the engine??
If you insured the cost of the shell you could get another one and throw the running gear in.

Regarding insurance on the track. I dont think your normal insurance would cover that. I'm not sure if you can get insurance on the track???... You are in control and at risk and you have put yourself in that risky situation. I think if your too worried about damaging your car then maybe a track isnt for you. Theres always the chance of an accident.

[beeza]

Thanks Paul,I'm not worried at all about damaging my car on the track,I let go of that.Live on the edge! Tracking my car is my dream.

That's agreat point about insurance,in the event of an accident and damaging the engine,we can fix em' up as cheap as possible anyways,unless it's major...you could always swap in a cheap as d-series if ya broke :)

Fixing the body can get expensive real quick.

[rpm boy]

...Why dont u build a monster k series then with ongoing working money u can eventually put it in? k24 is nice but then its no high comp and not a real vtec, if u go the k20 then u have the proper vtec head high comp engine etc and eventually u can build a high comp k24 with k20 head and buy some QTB's and ecu and be a monster streeter using less fuel than a turbo and prob more reliable, i think u can use all oem parts apart from some h beams :thumbsup:

[joe.teg]

supercharged EP3 K20 LOL... no traction anyone?

[beeza]

ITB's are loud in Vtec,I personnally wouldn't sport em' on the street,but there's lots of police where I live.

[Paul1985]

Thanks Paul,I'm not worried at all about damaging my car on the track,I let go of that.Live on the edge! Tracking my car is my dream.

That's agreat point about insurance,in the event of an accident and damaging the engine,we can fix em' up as cheap as possible anyways,unless it's major...you could always swap in a cheap as d-series if ya broke :)

Fixing the body can get expensive real quick.

I meant the engione would be easy enough to pull out of a written off/damaged chassis and thrown back into another. Still alot of money possibly lost as EG shells go from between 3 - 8k approx depending what model etc...

Throwing a D back in would be a hassle mainly because you remove the old engine mounting bracket for the K-series. You could try and keep this bracket in form when removing it and then weld it back in place if you ever throw a D in but that would be quiet a hassle....

[beeza]

Yes,that's a good option too!!

[jayeg]

yeah dont no what k i want, k24 faster 1/4 but i love my revs and the sound of a k20a cant be beaten not to fussed on the extra torque just really want to be into the mid to high 12's on street tyres and semi striped interior.
but alot of people keep telling me if i buy k20 after couple months i will want k24 so cheaper to do in the first place but i really like k20a tough choice i havent got the money to change my mind after its done

[FastFwd]

just get the k24...im sure theres some head mods that can be done in the future to make it able to rev the crap out of.

Btw sorry to get off topic but can you swap heads in the k series like in the b series? like putting a k20a head on a k24? or is it all different?

[joe.teg]

i believe its the same

[hotdc2]

Btw sorry to get off topic but can you swap heads in the k series like in the b series? like putting a k20a head on a k24? or is it all different?

Fairly certain you can do this. I've seen a few people make reference to kswap frankensteins

[jayeg]

yes you can

[AH_HUH]

hmm.... i'll put my 2 cents here.

a couple of months ago i was handed the keys to a 190kw@wheel civic with k24... was pretty much built off its nuts... i took it for a wrap and yes there was slight traction loss through 3rd gear but it was somehow missing the "fun" factor, things werent zooming past me and all i can hear is a high pitched vtec screaming.

now thinking back to when i had my dc2r turbo... mmmm.... nothing like the sound of vtec hitting at 4700rpm then the wastegate cracking open at 5000rpm... damn then seeing 8500rpm limiter, that was a "fun" car to drive. didnt have a built motor, just standard internals which pumped out 268kw@wheels@16psi on drag tune (5th gear wheel spin) managed a 12.2@125mph, thats with a bogged launch. i use to drive it everyday with a street tune of 222kw@wheels on 11psi and never missed a beat. my ex gf used to drive it alot too but never hit boost. even once had a lamborghini gallardo pull up next to me on the cumberland hwy... poor guy.... put him to shame at the end of 4th gear by half a car length.

so yea, thats my 2 cents.... i think i want another boosted honda.... :zip:

[AH_HUH]

here's some pics to jog the memory abit...

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6843/picture003pmp.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture003pmp.jpg)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1675/dc2r007n.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc2r007n.jpg)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/23/dc2r019.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc2r019.jpg)

[hotdc2]

can you pm the work done on that and costs? i'm interested in building a teg that will eat my mates supra for breakfast

[AH_HUH]

you'll spend about 10 - 15k on turbo charging a b motor... just depends on if u use branded parts or cut corners and use parts that just make it work for the sake of it. alot of money is in the bling side which isnt recommended, such as polishing.

rough price:

2000 - turbo
1000 - intercooler (yes there is a difference with a $250 chinese one and a quality one like plazmaman)
700 - wastegate
450 - bov
700 - ignition
300 - fuel pump
200 - fuel rail
800 - injectors
500 - throttle body
1500 - clutch
800 - custom exhaust manifold
500 - custom intercooler pipes
1000 - 3inch exhaust
2000 - labour?
600 - tune
1000 - ecu
1000 - misc

and thats pretty much goodbye 15k without hpc coating, polishing, braided lines. but that will get u pretty much where u want without the bling.

[hotdc2]

you'll spend about 10 - 15k on turbo charging a b motor... just depends on if u use branded parts or cut corners and use parts that just make it work for the sake of it. alot of money is in the bling side which isnt recommended, such as polishing.

rough price:

2000 - turbo
1000 - intercooler (yes there is a difference with a $250 chinese one and a quality one like plazmaman)
700 - wastegate
450 - bov
700 - ignition
300 - fuel pump
200 - fuel rail
800 - injectors
500 - throttle body
1500 - clutch
800 - custom exhaust manifold
500 - custom intercooler pipes
1000 - 3inch exhaust
2000 - labour?
600 - tune
1000 - ecu
1000 - misc

and thats pretty much goodbye 15k without hpc coating, polishing, braided lines. but that will get u pretty much where u want without the bling.

wow
what sizeturbo is that? it's become apparent to me that this won't be happening anytime soon. gives me time to save till i get my fulls though

thanks dude:thumbsup:

[AH_HUH]

i used a garrett gt3040 with a hks rear housing supplied from gcg turbos. for 1.8 to 2.0 litres the gt30 range is the best for max power out of an unopened motor imo.

[hotdc2]

do you still have this car? would love to see it in person. maybe go for a ride? haha. sounds like a beast

[FastFwd]

hmm.... i'll put my 2 cents here.

a couple of months ago i was handed the keys to a 190kw@wheel civic with k24... was pretty much built off its nuts... i took it for a wrap and yes there was slight traction loss through 3rd gear but it was somehow missing the "fun" factor, things werent zooming past me and all i can hear is a high pitched vtec screaming.

now thinking back to when i had my dc2r turbo... mmmm.... nothing like the sound of vtec hitting at 4700rpm then the wastegate cracking open at 5000rpm... damn then seeing 8500rpm limiter, that was a "fun" car to drive. didnt have a built motor, just standard internals which pumped out 268kw@wheels@16psi on drag tune (5th gear wheel spin) managed a 12.2@125mph, thats with a bogged launch. i use to drive it everyday with a street tune of 222kw@wheels on 11psi and never missed a beat. my ex gf used to drive it alot too but never hit boost. even once had a lamborghini gallardo pull up next to me on the cumberland hwy... poor guy.... put him to shame at the end of 4th gear by half a car length.

so yea, thats my 2 cents.... i think i want another boosted honda.... :zip:

Sorry but how were you pushing 16psi on standard internals/compression. I wouldnt believe that till i sore it.

[AH_HUH]

Sorry but how were you pushing 16psi on standard internals/compression. I wouldnt believe that till i sore it.

dude i just showed u a dyno sheet, plus car with rego that matches the dyno sheet.

ppl that can vouch for my car are jdmyard, insight motorsports, is motor racing, toda and birrong automotive because i returned the car back to stock atleast 3 times

[FastFwd]

as i said before, im not doubting you but personally i wouldnt believe it until i sore it for my own eyes. Plus theres no where stating what compression ratio your running etc to tell me its stock internals otherwise. I'm running my eg upto 20 pound in a few weeks and i could tell every my internals were stock also. Sorry dude im not trying to discredit you but i just cant see that motor stock taking 16 pound and not exploding. and also anyone can get a stock b series with stock compression and boost it upto 16psi for 2 minutes on one dyno run and cross your fingers that nothing gives way just so you can get a dyno sheet that has 268kw.

[FastFwd]

maybe someone else can vouch for this cos if its true then i will be blown away.

[kwayzivietnamese]

yeah no problems .. ill vouch for AH_HUH ... on a PARTIAL very very SAFE tune, i made 230fwkw with over 400Nm of torque on 11psi with my unopened spoon crate motor .. powertune can vouch for it, as well as the fact that it would have handled 16psi easy and pushed well over 250 ... its all in the tuner .. if you have a good tuner, then your motor and setup are in safe hands :thumbsup:
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr199/kwayzivietnamese/IMG_0674s.jpg

Here is a clip of it with the partial tune, slammed all around with -4 camber and bald tyres
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=wOwADCYIcfg
Tell me that aint fun lol :p

[AH_HUH]

wham bam thank u mam. i rest my case.

[FastFwd]

sorry kwayzivietnamese i've heard of people pushing them as high as 11psi and thats something i can definitely believe as many people do it but 16psi is a different story. I need someone who can vouch for his car on 16psi or another b series running 16psi.

[AH_HUH]

call scott from insight motorsports, he is the one who tuned it and it shows 60 something runs that he had to do to get it right on the dyno.

[kwayzivietnamese]

sorry kwayzivietnamese i've heard of people pushing them as high as 11psi and thats something i can definitely believe as many people do it but 16psi is a different story. I need someone who can vouch for his car on 16psi or another b series running 16psi.

Umm if you didnt realise ... a spoon crate motor runs much higher compression then your standard type r b18c7 motor .. so running 11psi on my spoon crate motor is as good as running 15-16psi on a standard b18c7 motor.
Having said that ... you got 2 setups right infront of you .. both that have dyno sheets to back them up as well as a video of mine ... both setups were daily driven .. both were unopened standard internals, and both have reputable tuning houses that will vouch for it as they tuned it themselves first hand ... mate doesnt get any more solid proof then that ...

[hotdc2]

i'm curious as to what a spoon crate motor is? what differentiates it from a stock standard b18? how do you run higher compression with same internals as a stock motor?

sorry for noob qs but gotta learn somehow?

[FastFwd]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the spoon crate motor a little stronger? yeh it may have a slightly higher comp ratio but it is stronger right?

Listen guys im not trying to get you fired up but ive blown a high comp setup myself running 7psi. It wasnt a tune because the map was fine. and the engine was fresh out of japan with less than 60 thou on it. Sorry to doubt you guys its just hard for me to believe as alot of others have blown there setups on much less than 16psi before also.

[AH_HUH]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the spoon crate motor a little stronger? yeh it may have a slightly higher comp ratio but it is stronger right?

Listen guys im not trying to get you fired up but ive blown a high comp setup myself running 7psi. It wasnt a tune because the map was fine. and the engine was fresh out of japan with less than 60 thou on it. Sorry to doubt you guys its just hard for me to believe as alot of others have blown there setups on much less than 16psi before also.


stronger it is not. just blueprinted with higher compression. no sleeves etc to strengthen it.

all comes down to quality of parts and ur tuner. u get for what u pay for.

[fatboyz39]

Can vouch for AH-HUH 260kw run. Unopen motor with a quality kit with race fuel. Wonder how it would of went with E85? hehe

When people build turbo's kit for there honda they make the wrong move installling a small turbo. Honda's high compression love the big turbo. They work great together.

[IEVAQ8]

even my setup makes 239kw on 7.5psi......................unopened dc2r engine............
power and torque:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/ievaq8/peak-power.jpg

boost level:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/ievaq8/boost-level.jpg

engine bay:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/ievaq8/DSCN1041.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/ievaq8/DSCN1042.jpg

and i got pleanty of ozhonda guys here in melb that can vouch for my setup................

[FastFwd]

IEVAQ-8 im not doubting the the power im doubting the amount of psi running through the stock motor with stock compression. I believe that he could make 260kw on a stock motor.

[hisoka]

what computer you running ievaq8, and turbo size and is it the boost controlled with ebc or mbc. your boost is pretty nice in that graph

[EG5]

WOW heaps of power there!

[hotdc2]

dammit now i want to boost my car..

i hate not being allowed to drive nicely modified cars legally.

[rpm boy]

....anyone got a dyno graph of a worked All motor k20 or k24? would like to see the torque curve compared to some of the turbo setups :)

[hotdc2]

i know yonas has a dyno graph. maybe try yboost as well. I don't know what you mean by worked. pretty sure both their motors have stock internals. i'm pretty sure anyway..

[rpm boy]

well, Induction Exhaust and ECU at a minimum, someone that has spens around the same money as the turbo setups on an all motor as a comparative, all this talk about turbos with all that power, would like to see some big NA setups for around the same price just to see what is the better option (reliablity/power etc)

[hotdc2]

from what i understand, turbo is the cheapest way to see the biggest gains. to put a k20/4 into a civic or teg then it's going to cost you close to $15g alone. then if you want to build the car for drags to see some low numbers its going to cost you a fair bit more than what some of these guys have spent on there 240kw turbo setups

[EG5]

....anyone got a dyno graph of a worked All motor k20 or k24? would like to see the torque curve compared to some of the turbo setups :)

EGK24A
*The glitch on torque curve came from the loudness of the open header with megaphone*
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/egk24/DSC09962.jpg?t=1241662472

[rpm boy]

u lowered the vtec cut in yonas?
what ecu are u running?

[EG5]

u lowered the vtec cut in yonas?
what ecu are u running?

cant remember when vtec engage on my set up
running hondata kpro
8300 rpm rev limit
stock k24a3 bottom end

[Chris_F]

^ stock oil pump?

I'm really impressed the k24 can take such high RPM

[EG5]

^ stock oil pump?

I'm really impressed the k24 can take such high RPM

Stock k24A3 oil pump here.
50 degree vtc

[rpm boy]

any difference between k20 and 24 block? deck hight like the b series diff?

[EG5]

any difference between k20 and 24 block? deck hight like the b series diff?

different bore and stroke

[rpm boy]

so thearetically with knotching out the block u could fit a k24 crank into a k20 block?

[Joel_K24]

If you want linear responsiveness; go for a K20 or K24 conversion.

If you wanna pack your punch into a few thousand rpm; boost a B18c7

[rpm boy]

track = NA or SC
drag = turbo
for FWD neways IMO (dont hurt me)

[FastFwd]

yeh drag/street = b turbo. Altho you can get the same or better time in a NA k series Drag as you can in a boosted B so i dunno its all relative.

[rpm boy]

I think the main reason the boosted boys arnt getting good times is tyre width, if u see what rims/tyres there running i the states u would understand :)....

[IEVAQ8]

what computer you running ievaq8, and turbo size and is it the boost controlled with ebc or mbc. your boost is pretty nice in that graph

i got hondata s300, turbo is a gt3037s with 0.82 rear housing and 44mm external gate...no boost controller, just waste gate spring, thats y the boost is progressive.........and easier to control wheelspin...........

[hisoka]

i got hondata s300, turbo is a gt3037s with 0.82 rear housing and 44mm external gate...no boost controller, just waste gate spring, thats y the boost is progressive.........and easier to control wheelspin...........

awsome mate, just awsome.

[JDM.Power]

k24 bottom with k20a the way to go.

[LiL FiLo]

k26 FTW! LOL

[2002 TeGgY]

k26 FTW! LOL

lol, im getting basically the same numberplates as u...DCK24A

[Benson]

D-series TURBO is the shizzle these days

[vampzzz]

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

[Benson]

Spend the money on more important part of the car to make it suitable for track. For more power ill go for a well built B20vtec

[VTi_b0i]

I think the main reason the boosted boys arnt getting good times is tyre width, if u see what rims/tyres there running i the states u would understand :)....

wat do they run over there?

[YBOOST]

wat do they run over there?

type in "nyce1s" on youtube. its some good fast turbo hondas in the US!

[GTRVspec95]

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

Think of it this way ...

The turbo is going to give you a real big hit in terms of power but if your going to track race it this power increase also generates a lot more under bonnet heat over time.

Controlling under bonnet temperatures on a track car is the key to getting longevity and performance out of the motor.

Personally I'd consider the B series turbo if you where going to drag race it at night at the occasional test and tune, but I'd never consider this route for circuit work unless you have a substantial budget to forge the motor and add all the necessary cooling hardware.

[thebob]

K20 for sure. Have been in boosted civics and it doesnt compare. The noise and the pull a K20 has you cannot match. plus when you kill something and they expect it to be turbo and you pop the bonnet and its all motor, their facial expression makes it all worth wild.

[ek4-guy]

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

b-series has a better balance for track as the engine is on the passanger side and this makes for better balance

with a k-series the engine is mounted more towards the drivers side so when you have the driver and the engine all one the one side the balance isn't as good for track work it's more suited for drags

but when you turbo the b-series this changes the things as a turbo makes the b-series less suitable for tight track racing

[thebob]

b-series has a better balance for track as the engine is on the passanger side and this makes for better balance

with a k-series the engine is mounted more towards the drivers side so when you have the driver and the engine all one the one side the balance isn't as good for track work it's more suited for drags

but when you turbo the b-series this changes the things as a turbo makes the b-series less suitable for tight track racing

Not the case man, K balance is fine, its not prone to understeering as many have said in the past. In my opinion it handles better then with my B. traction is more of a issue.

[fatboyz39]

Most of the fastest track cars in Australia are B-series. Go figure. Just look at the proconcepts civic. One is a stroked b16a and the other k20a. Both similar setups, b-series car is always quicker.

[RtN]

k26 FTW! LOL

hows that going btw lol

[eg5civic]

see this is what will send me nuts when it comes time to get off my p's and do my motor build... which is in 1 1/2 years but i'm already saving
b16b is base so options are

The temptation of turbo is huge... 1.8L gt35/40
stock k20 is pure porn/baller
high comp + built head b20 is also a very likely option

circuit car that will be street driven (ie cage would go in it)

this is all my future plans... some might say dreams XD

[thebob]

Most of the fastest track cars in Australia are B-series. Go figure. Just look at the proconcepts civic. One is a stroked b16a and the other k20a. Both similar setups, b-series car is always quicker.

But in saying that 90% of the cars that are tracked are b series. K is a new thing over here and most of them are un opened. I think over the new few years the shift will move to K as its a better base to start from, now days it takes a built B to beat a standard K. But all this aside current standings are B is better, you only need to look at your success and Hi Power Racings CRX. Hopefully 12PIN will shake things up abit.

[fatboyz39]

But in saying that 90% of the cars that are tracked are b series. K is a new thing over here and most of them are un opened. I think over the new few years the shift will move to K as its a better base to start from, now days it takes a built B to beat a standard K. But all this aside current standings are B is better, you only need to look at your success and Hi Power Racings CRX. Hopefully 12PIN will shake things up abit.

That is true. K-series are a great motor. Can produce some stupid numbers and have a great gearbox. We might fly the k series sooner or later, jsut a matter of time.

[thebob]

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

[GTRVspec95]

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

It all depends on the budget your willing to set for the project.

I can relate to the dilemma as I knew the K series engine would have been more potent in my track EG but that would of added almost 2 - 3 grand more to the build; which was money needed to balance out the rest of the car in terms of suspension, roll cage, brakes etc.

So the OP really needs to sit down and do the sums, talk to their builder/parts supplier and figure out roughly how much they want to spend; or can afford to spend and cover all the parts you need to modify your car to get it doing what you want it to do weather it be circuit racing or drag racing.

This has been a public announcement bought to you today by Haw Chew Gai Pow Phan.

[MikeyG]

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

[hisoka]

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

have you got one ? cool thread btw.

[MikeyG]

have you got one ? cool thread btw.

ofcourse not fatboyz does i believe one of his mates... very rare in aus :) k series 11-15k setup..... h2b 8-10k setup :D

[hisoka]

yeah pretty cost effective (bang for buck) if you wanna stay NA.

lol rare. in brisbane inala, they have more H series than B series i swear. first time i ever seen on was there, then noticed pretty much everyone there got it

[fatboyz39]

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

Stay in the era. More support from B series then K sereis over here.

[jayeg]

i think i will go k20/24 good power & in the 12's and the resale of cars with k's are better then b's or h series, i dont have the money to run a turbo setup. 15g i'm maxed out so i need something that doesnt need tuning as much and reliable i no turbo setups can be, but i dont think so on my budget thanks for all the help. if i get anything but k im gunna wish i do .

[thebob]

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

Pfft, if a stock H beat my stock K i would hang myself.

[Sexc86]

^ mikey is talking about a H22a with a Bseries Gearbox

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109724

[eg5civic]

yeah i'm still thinking k series would win

[YBOOST]

no complaints with my K swap! nice and quick street car.

[EG5]

no complaints with my K swap! nice and quick street car.

:)
Lets push it to run 12.3 sec with stock internals :thumbsup:

[Benson]

:)
Lets push it to run 12.3 sec with stock internals :thumbsup:

Possible, i've seen some crazy stock type S motors run 11's

[EG5]

Possible, i've seen some crazy stock type S motors run 11's

Thats on EG hatch
Might be abit harder on dc2 chasis

[thebob]

^ mikey is talking about a H22a with a Bseries Gearbox

Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

[98vtir]

Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

I'd say the stock K would flog a stock H. In my stock (exception of coilovers) EK4 I've 'raced' 2 Prelude Vti-R's, one had exhaust done and not sure what else, it only started to pull away end of 3rd/start of 4th gear and the second one which i'm not sure if it was stock of not was pretty neck and neck. I've also 'raced' a S14 and had him till end of 3rd too, haha his face was priceless :P

Damn I'd love a K-swap and make a mad dune buggy outta the B16 :P or do a mini cooper.

[fatboyz39]

Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

Come down to syd. H2B setup in EG hatch. I think you might need to sell up.

[fatboyz39]

I'd say the stock K would flog a stock H. In my stock (exception of coilovers) EK4 I've 'raced' 2 Prelude Vti-R's, one had exhaust done and not sure what else, it only started to pull away end of 3rd/start of 4th gear and the second one which i'm not sure if it was stock of not was pretty neck and neck. I've also 'raced' a S14 and had him till end of 3rd too, haha his face was priceless :P

Damn I'd love a K-swap and make a mad dune buggy outta the B16 :P or do a mini cooper.

What are you comparing? They have been talking K swap into lighter shell and h2B in a lighter shell. The debate is which one is faster and dollar value.

We've owned K24 Ek, driven h2B civic, driven k20 EG, built k24, stock k20 and etc. K20-k24 swap civic and h2B swaps are similar on power and performance.

[Benson]

IMO after experiencing the K24's, k20's and h2b, i would much prefer the h2b due to dollar value, engine set-up and the rawness on the power delivery.

K-series is too smooth!.........

[barefootbonzai]

Come down to syd. H2B setup in EG hatch. I think you might need to sell up.

If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

[fatboyz39]

If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

Not doubting at all. But freeway runs it'll be close to even. The K series has the off the line advantage due to its gearing.:thumbsup:

[jayeg]

so h2b pretty close to k in terms of power and 1/4 what the price difference between the 2 i thought k was alot better

[DR HONDA]

Its personal preference for a K swap or a H2B swap. Pricing will work out close to the same once all mods and bolt ons wanted are achieved. Pricing for a H2B wont be cheaper unless you are sourcing parts and are experienced at this. For the personal builder who has to pay to get through there build i believe you wont get much change going K or H2B. As for personal opinion im biased to K series as driving a K is like using Pentium 4 compared to driving a H is like using Pentium 1. Good luck with your choice making :thumbsup:

[thebob]

If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

Even still K in my coupe vs H2B eg, i still cannot see it getting beaten. Welcome to try but i dunno. I hope i havent got the ozhonda blinkers on where you think turbo d is the fastest.

[thebob]

FYI, that wasnt a attack at lyle, Although lyle has now taken as a attack agaisnt him. Sorry lyle for not mentioning you. Next time i talk anything remotely honda i will make sure to exclude you from the conversation.

[Sexc86]

Not at all mate, I just thought that statment regarding the "blinkers on" was ment for me. My misstake.

Anyway back on topic, Would like to hear some more opinions on the H2B vs K20

[A.C.S DRAG]

i would like to chuck a spanner in the works by saying TURBO D!!

lol, i thought it was funny......

[Timmy_B]

K20 FTW or K24 FTMFW

And as you said, you might not be the fastest car around but when your pulling a all motor VTEC down that 1/4 mile you will be loving it, and when your daily driving it and some dude in some gay v8 think he can smoke you, you will be loving that as well.

All the best with it, can you let me know when you have a 'build thread' so find out how it's all going.

[ek4-guy]

i would like to chuck a spanner in the works by saying TURBO D!!

lol, i thought it was funny......

i'd like to chuck a turbo B18C in aswell :p

[mr180sx]

I agree with fatboyz39. H2b and K series will be pretty even on the highway. Especially a H2b in a eg and K series in a Teg.

Get your car up and running Bobby and we have a car for you to test on

Its not a H2B but gearbox has been modified:thumbsup:

[A.C.S DRAG]

oh yeah, im down with this! tell me when we going to willowbank and ill run you guys too

[mr180sx]

Dont worry John, we've got a whole group going.

Will let you know.:thumbsup: OzH$#O representin!!


oh yeah, im down with this! tell me when we going to willowbank and ill run you guys too

[b18c_crx]

Dont worry John, we've got a whole group going.

Will let you know.:thumbsup: OzH$#O representin!!

let me kno pretty sure my car will do good times. :D

[honda_b_blastn]

what quarter times are these H2B's running in aus?

I'd be up for a willow run now that i have the 2L back in..be a good comparision :)

[EG5]

what quarter times are these H2B's running in aus?

I'd be up for a willow run now that i have the 2L back in..be a good comparision :)

Here is an example for it
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109724
12.8 sec

Still in early stage , should easily run mid 12s , low 12s

[thebob]

With slicks on. Most K swaps run mid 12s on streets. Look at your setup yonas, un opened K running 11's, compared to un opened H running high 12's. I have nothing against that kids time, its fast. Just the K's seem faster and thats what the OP is after.


I agree with fatboyz39. H2b and K series will be pretty even on the highway. Especially a H2b in a eg and K series in a Teg.

Get your car up and running Bobby and we have a car for you to test on

Its not a H2B but gearbox has been modified:thumbsup:

So keen, buying head today or tomorrow. Then just got to sort out the bottom end. Should be 3 months away, just need money.

[fatboyz39]

H2B in yonas shell will run high 11's. Yonas shell is very light and setup very well.

Kswaps run mid 12's? show me some example on real street tyre. Not like those micky thomspon street radial shit.

[barefootbonzai]

man what are you girls even arguing about. K > H2B, but H2B is a cheaper option for ALMOST the same performance of the K. It's as simple as that.

Just for perspective sake, wasn't there a stock B18CR EG around a while back running high 12's on slicks? Just goes to show, there is potential in which ever option you choose to take, just a matter of how much you wanna spend.

[fatboyz39]

Agree K > H2B. Not doubting it at all. But it terms of performance there on the same level.

Bobby cant get teh fact that a h2B swap is just is or if not faster then a K20 swap.

[Benson]

imagine K box with a B or H series engine...

[EG5]

H2B in yonas shell will run high 11's. Yonas shell is very light and setup very well.



Agreed
Even B20vtec with a good shell set up can run high 11s on slicks.
Car set up plays a big part in this game.

[GTRVspec95]

Just out of curiosity has anyone track raced a K series and a H2B and which one is a more balanced chassis ?

[Benson]

Bseries is more balanced.. i tracked my old Ek with the k24, not bad balanced but the B felt better

I personally wouldnt circuit race a h2b

[thebob]

man what are you girls even arguing about. K > H2B, but H2B is a cheaper option for ALMOST the same performance of the K. It's as simple as that.

Just for perspective sake, wasn't there a stock B18CR EG around a while back running high 12's on slicks? Just goes to show, there is potential in which ever option you choose to take, just a matter of how much you wanna spend.

Im not arguing anything, i have admitted that the H2B is a fast setup. Have i seen it be this fast, no i havent. I have only read its a fast setup and been told. I can only comment on something i have seen.

[honda_b_blastn]

H2B in yonas shell will run high 11's. Yonas shell is very light and setup very well.

Kswaps run mid 12's? show me some example on real street tyre. Not like those micky thomspon street radial shit.

i ran 12.7 on nangkangs...yer boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy:thumbsup: but that isnt a real street tyre...thats a POS

[blackeuro]

We've seen numerous dc2rs with k20a running high 12s in street tyres, and they are much heavier than the EG. So the H2B is good but they are definitely 1 level below the K...

[Benson]

IF your on a tight budget, h2b is definately cheaper..

If your a baller and have moeny to spent, K series is a winner

[zco]

what are those hi-comp boys running ? isnt their H22 EG runnin like 11's ? is that a h2b aswell ? if not then i cant imagine what kinda times they'd be doing with a b box

[JDM.Power]

nah zico they still running the h22a gearbox with a lsd with customized final ratio

[mr180sx]

yeah i think they got 4.7 fd in theirs


nah zico they still running the h22a gearbox with a lsd with customized final ratio

[fatboyz39]

We've seen numerous dc2rs with k20a running high 12s in street tyres, and they are much heavier than the EG. So the H2B is good but they are definitely 1 level below the K...

Much heavier? Depending on the level of diet both cars has under taken.

If you have 100kg driver and a 50kg driver, thats 50kg alone there! haha

[reedyek4]

B18 Turbo man...I got my Ek4 n/a about 4 days ago, missing the turbo on my evo so dearly, there is something about the way a turbo sounds..when people hear you throttle up and suck some air down you see them look an think "S**t whats in there :S"

[X8TEENX]

i would go for K20A+K24 block+ecu tuned up....cost you around 15-18k to done it but you will get plenty of torque and power to chop plenty cars......beside the power is ~280whp

[thebob]

I wish simply swapping the 20 head onto the 24 bottom end got 280whp. No need to build motors then.

[JDM.Power]

i wish i could get that much !
im only 79hp farr off it..

time for some nos yO!

[thebob]

Yeah i must have lost 85hp in my k20 bottom end.

[reedyek4]

i`m going for a k20a..set me back around 17.5grand..thats just engine wise as brakes/suspension already done...end of the day a stock k20a has lots of potential..

[Benson]

17.5k? Your getting jipped!

[reedyek4]

hahaha might be more then other places but the guy who is doing it has his own ek k20a and he is building it to same specs as his..all top parts plus upgraded axles hosing etc etc

[thebob]

17.5k could get you a built K from the US and the swap. hell i will give you the k swap dvd so you can do it yourself.

[JDM.Power]

shat 17.5k!
buy a jdm k20a for 9k, and spend 8.5k on quality new parts!

[reedyek4]

after everything i am just going to buy an ek with the k20 already done :P...

may drop some money in it after a while!

had a look at a b18 turb but doesnt have the same feeling of torque that the k20 produces :)

[Phased]

after everything i am just going to buy an ek with the k20 already done :P...

may drop some money in it after a while!

had a look at a b18 turb but doesnt have the same feeling of torque that the k20 produces :)

Do you mean the same feeling of linear torque? Because most B18 Turbo's would produce a lot more peak torque than a Naturally Aspirated K20.

[reedyek4]

Do you mean the same feeling of linear torque? Because most B18 Turbo's would produce a lot more peak torque than a Naturally Aspirated K20.

yeah thats what i meant..torque from down low...

[G-Stick]

sorry to hi jack guys but is there a huge difference between the jdm k20a and the aus k20a? worth the extra money?

[Benson]

yes worth the money to pay extra for a JDM k20

[pinoy-boi]

all i can say is u gotta love all engine motors. and the look on the other guys face is priceless lol

[rpm boy]

Bump this shit back up, what's the news on k's over the past 2 years?

[Snoop_gee]

well Nikos owner of k20.org has sold the site to pursue his own business venture i think making K series www.superiorvalvemotion.com

[rpm boy]

What type of numbers are na k series and the turbo boys making? What sort of 1/4 mile times are people getting nowdays?

[GSi_PSi]

Damien hit 1:03 in a NA K24 at wakefield in a stripped EG

[XB-16-AX]

i'm a vtec man only honda's for me and i dont think on my budget i could build a skyline faster then a eg with k20 or b series turbo and i wanna beat people in a car they dont think is going to be fast every body thinks skylines are fast

OH does not participate/encourages street racing in an unsafe condition or environment. :)

suprised no one picked this up back then.. lol





old dead thread

[jayeg]

where does it say street racing on there read it thanks for ur 2 cents not to dead if someone poswted on it

[rpm boy]

It will be old when we start doing discussion about what's beter k series or j series swaps :p

[jayeg]

yeah tell me when j swaps become common

[XB-16-AX]

where does it say street racing on there read it thanks for ur 2 cents not to dead if someone poswted on it

"whats faster & i wanna beat people in a car" already promotes speed & racing.

This aint fast and furious kids.

:p

[XB-16-AX]

yeah tell me when j swaps become common

They are the next big thing in the US. Youtube it bra.

But here in Aust will probably be less common due to the heavy modification requirements for rocker clearance which requires the bonnet trimmed.

[GSi_PSi]

Don't think j swaps will ever be in the same league as k series.

Especially in Australia.

engine sticks out bonnet
weight completely alters the handling characteristics
no manual gearboxes to be found in Australia
No manual ecu's in Australia
Wiring worse than needle in a hay stack

There not even that fast the ones done in America , the effort is simply not worth it .

K series are really well designed and advanced technology engines

[Snoop_gee]

^ well said.

[jayeg]

thanks xb-16-ax because im sure that u have never raced any one and im sure you stick to the speed limits every time you drive and yes bra' i have seen j swaps not very good for the cops a motor sticking out of ur hood

[XB-16-AX]

thanks xb-16-ax because im sure that u have never raced any one and im sure you stick to the speed limits every time you drive and yes bra' i have seen j swaps not very good for the cops a motor sticking out of ur hood

Thanks bud. I would only race in a safe and closed environment. My car is not fast enough to race on the streets.

Jswaps are great if u have the cash and only have the intention of 1/4 drags or circuit racing (safe environment).

Edit: ive got a friend up in QLD currently EJswapping a STI motor to a EK civic hatch.

Wtf ?? Yeh i know right!! Cat wait to see this go.