Quality of Sound Through Head Unit

[riruiz_88]

well im just wanting to know if i would have reasonably good sound out put from my Head Unit which delivers 50Wx4.
Speakers are:
1) Front: 6.5" Splits Max Power 120W, Nominal Power 60W
2) Rear: 5" Splits Max Power 100W, Nominal Power 50W

i wont be doof doofin all the time, or will i need to be using an amp just to get more out of my speaker set up for the front?

cheers

[SiReal]

If you're going from stock to aftermarket, it is noticeable straight away. More punch in the bass, more treble, and genearlly , more everything.

From stock to Alpine headunit in the accord - it was WOW
from stock to Sony in the integra - it was Good, but not as wow as the alpine.

Both the accord and teg speakers (F+R) are running off the headunits. The accord sounds like it has amped speakers up front. They were $60 clarion 6" 2 ways lol. i initially bought them with the notion of interim speakers, but ended up keeping them up front because of the awesome work they do for me.

[riruiz_88]

well i have a clarion head unit which came with the car, fairly good but does the does for me. so in sayin what you have said, i would get decent sound from the front set up (60W) but the speakers wouldnt be at its best potential?

[SiReal]

u would get better sound with it amped up, that is correct. but i wouldnt go as far to say its phenominal improvement. it wont distort as quick, obivsouly the sound will be stronger,. but unless u have the speakers and amp to expect phenominal sound, then imho, there is no point.

perhaps u could try changing the front speakers to another brand?

i changed from pioneer fronts to kicker fronts , all off the sony headunit and the difference was fantastic. both were $80 to $100 price range, but the kicker sounded 10x better. probably due to the lower power rating required to run them (more suited for the headunit in this case).

[riruiz_88]

right right, i will be using Focal Access1 range. so to get the best of the front set-up, i would constantly be needing to have the volume fairly high to get better clarity just to power the 60W speakers?

i dont really want to get an amp cause of money and space. and if i do run an amp in the future i would only get a 2channel for the fronts.

[SiReal]

not necessarily, i'm no expert, BUT the power should be a constant flow into the speakers, if you find that when you crank it, it distorts too easily, that means the headunit isnt providing enough power to run the speaker efficiently, hence why you get an amp to provide more power to the speaker.

well, my suggestion is to do it in steps. get your focals first, and if no good, then wire up the amp. wiring an amp takes around 2 hours. a 2 channel amp isnt too expensive and can usually fit under your passenger seat.

[riruiz_88]

yeh sounds like good tips, i can easily buy an amp/wiring if need be. if i have the volume fairly high, and it distorts/crackles unusually it would be insufficient power to the speakers yeh?

[NightKids]

I find the sound quality is a better with an amp compared to running it off head unit. Splits optimum power would be 60RMS whereas a head unit would probably only be putting out 20 something. You should try it 1st before you buy an amp, it's cheaper that way because if your happy with the sound then just leave it.

[riruiz_88]

oh so in reality my head unit is only pumping out roughly 20-30W? yeh if im not happy with the quality, can always wire in an amp.

[NightKids]

"The headunit will not be 50w rms per channel. Headunits that have 4x50w are 50w peak per channel and are actually 27w RMS. If the speakers say 170w, you need to find is that peak, peak music or rms power"

From google

[riruiz_88]

so by max, does that mean at the head unit volume max it will out put 50W?

[NightKids]

Its the max that they can hit. Say for example some subs say 1000W Max, if you feed it 1000W they can handle it for a few seconds before it gets fried.

[riruiz_88]

tru tru, i knew that max power of speakers/subs is never somethin to go by. will only know once i have put the speakers in if i im happy with the sound out put.

[NightKids]

NO worries man, GL with everything.

[ChiLLie]

dude, amplify the fronts and the backs. Running speakers off a headunit will ultimately kill them faster and no, it doesn't help to keep it up loud in order to 'match' the power rating.

buy a 4 channel amp, not a 2 way. more value for money this way :) oh and even if you're happy running the speakers off the head unit.. they won't be, until u amplify them imho.

[riruiz_88]

yeh cheers for that man, but thats up for me to decide whether i like the output. i can always wire in an amp at a later date any way. how would i "kill" the speakers running off the head unit? just dosnt make sense to me

[NightKids]

What he means is your underpowering the speakers. Normally applies to more high end splits that requre 100-120 RMS to run. I'd say your 60RMS speakers should be fine.

[riruiz_88]

so there is a danger of under powering my speakers? like burning them out?

[HairyMerkin]

FYI it will always sound better with an amp on your fronts.

[riruiz_88]

yeh i got that part straight, right now im just waiting for speakers to come in then ill se how they perform. but yeh keep the opinions coming

[HairyMerkin]

What he means is your underpowering the speakers. Normally applies to more high end splits that requre 100-120 RMS to run. I'd say your 60RMS speakers should be fine.

You can't underpowerd speakers, that's like saying you can walk too slow.

You can however, drive an amp to hard, and force it to send a clipped signal, which creates more heat in the speaker internals and will destroy it over time.

[riruiz_88]

is it possible to brigde 2 speakers from the head unit, and use a 2 channel amp for the other 2 speakers? just a thought

[HairyMerkin]

Don't do it, the impedence will blow the hu, or the power will be halved, depending on how you wire them.

[riruiz_88]

damn. so if i get a 4x50WRMS amp, would this be sufficient to run my whole speaker set up?

[HairyMerkin]

if you just have 2 front speakers and 2 rear, yes.

[redefine]

"The headunit will not be 50w rms per channel. Headunits that have 4x50w are 50w peak per channel and are actually 27w RMS. If the speakers say 170w, you need to find is that peak, peak music or rms power"

From google

power when it comes to audio equipt in general is a joke. you get little bookshelf speakers advertised as 200W 'Peak Music Power' where they can only take 10W rms (rms power is actually incorrect wording, but its usefull do distinguish between real power and advertised power).

you dont want to bridge fullrange speakers from a headunit, esp one that wasnt designed for it. you want to bridge the subs because bass takes much more power to produce then an equiv volume treble. (its something like the power requirements double for every octave you go down. i cant remember exactly). you get 4x as much power bridging (cause your using 2 channels at once, and the impedence to each side is effectively halved) and that very much could blow your amp OR your speakers. so never bridge speakers unless you know your amp is capable AND you know your speakers can handle the power. also, i dont know of any head units that support bridging (as one signal needs to be inverted).

also, its always better to have a bigger amp then speakers to get the full out of it. just dont turn it up all the way, or you'll have blown speakers :zip:

[TheSaint]

i just put a soundsystem in the liberty and i thought i would be ok with a good headunit and some desent speakers

i got the Alpine CDA-9886i with MB Quarts front Splits and MB Quarts rear co-axial, i was gona get alpine type-x but for some reason i got the MB's ... next time i might give type-x a shot ... apparently they are very similar but meh

H/U
http://www.alpine.com.au/products/product.asp?modelID=360

AMP
http://www.alpine.com.au/products/product.asp?modelID=307

cant find the boxes for the speakers at the moment because i just moved ... and the subwoofer is a JL audio 12"

it was a HUGE improvement over the stock subaru/clarion gear but i still wasnt 100% happy with it ... it felt like the speakers wernt running at their full potential ...

so after doing a bit of research i was going to head back into the store and get a PDA 4.100 ... BUT i was browsing on ebay one day and one popped up at a great price, so i bidded and won it ... and picked it up from the guys house down the road ... it was genuine and brand new ... SCORE

a mate helped me buy some high quality cables (4guage i think and a fuse that can handle the amp rating of the amplifier ... not shitty cheap stuff) which all cost more than the actual amp itself (but less than if i would have paid retail for the damn thing lol)

and i have to say amping those speakers up was a HUGE improvement over the alpine headunit out-put

im running the front splits off a channel each and have the other 2 channels bridged for a small subwoofer i used to have in my integra,got that in the wagon part of the liberty now

so yeah ... if u can amp up good quality speakers than do it ... u dont need a sub but each to their own

[riruiz_88]

wow, pretty into it guys aint you hahah.
well i got an amp today 4x50WRMS. and i will be running all speakers from the amp. i was reading the instructions and it has x3 sets of RCA's. x2 sets says INPUT and the other set says OUTPUT. in the wiring diagram it says that x1 OUTPUT and x1 INPUT goes to the Head Unit, while the other INPUT says it goes to other amps. wouldnt i need to use x2 INPUT's to get the signal from the Head Unit to the Amp?
if it dosnt make sense i can get pictures of the diagram/amp later.

[NightKids]

Oh cool you ended up buying an amp anyway. Just bridge two channels & use the other two to run your splits. That'll be sweet

[riruiz_88]

why bridge 2 channels when i can use all four channels for the 4 speakers i have? can anybody answer my question for the above?

[NightKids]

Oh sorry i thought you were running a sub, i mean you might as well...

Rear speakers don't need to be amped, splits & sub normally

[riruiz_88]

well i may aswell run the rears off the amp, its a 4channel after all. im really stuck as to how to wire the RCA leads. i always thought that each channel needed one RCA lead for it. but the wiring diagram says different. here are some pics>>>

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/DSC00394.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/DSC00395.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/DSC00396.jpg

how am i supposed to wire it, for a 4 channel set up?

[riruiz_88]

please help guys, im really puzzled on this

[aka_NSX]

how many Preout is your headunit ? if 2 then just connect the Front to the CH 1/2 of your Amp, and the Rear to the CH 3/4

but if only 1 preout for me I will bridge your 4Ch Amp to become 2Ch to run your front splits with more power O/P, then running your rear direct from your deck speaker O/P

The Installation wiring diagram I don't think is right ........

Output its suppose to go to an additional Amp and Input is go to the Headunit

what brand is your Amp ?

BTW have you received the FOCAL yet ?

[riruiz_88]

yeh i cleared it all up with a phone call to the place i purchased the amp. i got it from Jaycar for real cheap. yeh i will do what you said in the first paragraph. its what i had thought, but just the wiring diagram put me off.

pm sent

[ChiLLie]

Good work on getting the amp mate. make sure when u run the power wire its not next to the RCAs. ie, run power down one side of the car to the amp, then rca's plus blue remote wire down the other side. and yeah, output channel should only be going to another amp. if you only have 1 pair of RCA outs on ur head unit then get 'RCA splitters' . looks like a monkey drew that wiring diagram. good luck!

[riruiz_88]

tell me about it mate, and yeh i know not to run RCA with power other wise get induced EMF in the signal which would reduce the quality of the sound. but yeh very excited doin this myself, just gotta wait for cables to come in so i can install woooot