CU2 Accord Euro steering and tyre life

[Blue Euro]

Bought my Euro new in Jan 2009. Came with Yokohama Decibel E70 tyres. Handled perfectly till a tyre rotation at 17000km. Then steered like a dog. It became difficult to hold a straight line on slightly uneven road surfaces. The vehicle also did not easily steer out of even the shallowest bitumen rut – something I have since learned that the steering/suspension industry calls “tram-tracking”. Apart from becoming unpleasant to drive, the car was unsafe in some circumstances. While braking at slower speeds over a bumpy surface, the steering wheel needed to be held firmly to avoid sudden unwanted turning to the left or right. Eight months of frustration followed. Selling dealer, who had also done all servicing, denied existence of any problem. As did local Honda Australia rep - so dealer told me. Answer I got was that the car was "within specification". After 3 visits back to dealer, multiple enquiries with RACQ and an RACQ test I learned that the tyres were all worn heavily on their inside edges but not much on their outside edges. Dealer responded by wanting to sell me 4 new tyres at about $300 each - while still denying any problem existed. By then the car had travelled only 24000km.
At RACQ suggestion I sought the opinion of a steering and suspension specialist. Like everyone else who has driven the car except the dealer, they found the steering to be poor. They believe this was initiated by the Euro’s built in rear wheel negative camber which is a feature of many late model cars. It enhances handling but causes the inner edges of the rear tyres to wear much faster than the outer edges. The front wheels have little if any negative camber and wear more evenly. When swapped front to back at the service, the unevenly worn tyres were then on the front, causing the poor steering. The steering and suspension specialist said the only solution was new tyres. At $340 each I was not impressed with only 24000km life. Dealer told me the Yoko E70 normal life was 30000km. RACQ and steering/suspension specialist said should get 40000 if looked after. Dealer had allegedly done all servicing to Honda recomendations - they certainly charged me for tyre checks and rotations at 6 and 12 months. I then wrote detailed letter to the Dealer Principal asking to split the cost of new Yokos 50/50. To their credit, they agreed to this quickly - I guess because he was confronted with a pile of evidence and the realisation I was not going to drop the matter. Of course the "50%" was calculated on full RRP (which the dealer would never have paid) and I had to pay for 100% of the required wheel alignment. The steering suspension report also cost me $105. So after 8 months the car finally handles/steers the way it should and used to.
What I cannot understand is the continued denial of any problem and the apparent lack of concern for reputational risk to the dealer and Honda. I cannot believe that neither does not know about this issue - there have been thousands of these cars sold around the world - all with built in negative camber on the rear wheels. Why don't they suggest to Euro owners to get a wheel rotation every 5000km? The tyres will still wear on the inside edges but evening it out between all 4 wheels will surely delay the onset of lousy steering beyond 17000km. Or maybe they hope most owners will just fork out for new tyres every 12-18 months - with a tasty margin built in for the dealer.
Any way finally fixed now and I am back to loving the car.

[chunsa]

Thanks for the heads up in regards to the negative camber on the rear tyres. Guess it's still the same like the CL9. Did the dealer really rotate the tyres? What tyres did you replace the worn ones with?

I guess I should go rotate my tyres soon as I've just hit 10,XXX kms without rotation and wheel alignment..

[Type R Positive]

I had those db decibels standard too, only lasted 30,000kms. They are just a shit tyre.
I went to toyo transpath mp4's and the tyres have next to no wear with 30,000kms on them.
One thing I have found too is, regular wheel alignments are mandatory. I get one every 20,000kms and just had it done last week.
Toe was out 4.2mm on the front!

[buddah51au]

I have no problems at all with my yoko db decibels. 32500km. rotate every 5000kms & less than 1/2 worn. I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again. I run 36 psi f & r.

[praja6]

I have no problems at all with my yoko db decibels. 32500km. rotate every 5000kms & less than 1/2 worn. I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again. I run 36 psi f & r.

Does the tyre wearing also relying on the air pressure pSI using.. You seems using 36PSI which is higher than what dealers recommend(i use 34psi all 4)....Also you are rotating evey 5k...

Thanks for the valuable advice buddah

[Type R Positive]

I found at 34 psi the edges wear out Praja. Buddah and I do mostly highway speeds too, 36psi and even higher help save fuel at the higher speeds. Also why mine wore out so quickly as higher speeds mean lots of premature tyre wear. Seeing as 99% of those 30,000kms were done at 110km/h....
Thought is the front tyres wear twice as quick as the rears, since they do all the work. Regular rotation is needed for regular wear.

[Lemonhead]

good thread, thanks Blue Euro.

[schonda]

Im sorry you had to go through that blue euro. But thanks for the explanation. My CL9 I have to hold the steering tight it shakes a lot and turns left n right easily unless the road is VERY smooth. I can understand a big pot hole making it move but mine turns and shakes all over the place, parramatta road makes my arms tired after driving on it.

So new tires will fix this ai? A lot of people told me it may be a leak in the steering pump hose...my steering is heavy as well compared to a mates euro.

What's this negative chamber business anyway? And why doedo the euro's always get out of alignment?

I found a useful site re: steering problems. http://www.aa1car.com/library/steerpul.htm

im expeiencing a lot of bump steer to the point i sometimes dont look forward to driving the car or am not confident with it, my sis's ford festiva built in 1997 is sometimes easier to drive, i really want to fix this bump steer issue.

[Blue Euro]

Thanks for the heads up in regards to the negative camber on the rear tyres. Guess it's still the same like the CL9. Did the dealer really rotate the tyres? What tyres did you replace the worn ones with?

I guess I should go rotate my tyres soon as I've just hit 10,XXX kms without rotation and wheel alignment..

Hi Chunsa. Even though the owner's manual requires tyre rotation at 6 months and the dealer charged me for it, I suspect the first time they were actually rotated was not till the 12 months service. By then the car incl tyres had 17000km on the clock. The tyres I replaced the worn ones with were the same again ie Yoko Decibel E70 for 2 reasons. First, all the experts say they are an excellent tyre. Secondly the spare in the boot was that type and had never been used - so now I have 5 matching new tyres. Yes, I suggest you rotate your tyres now and every 5000km. The problem for me was more rotation rather than wheel alignment - when my problem was finally diagnosed, the alignment was not too bad. Only just outside Honda's spec I was told.

[Blue Euro]

Im sorry you had to go through that blue euro. But thanks for the explanation. My CL9 I have to hold the steering tight it shakes a lot and turns left n right easily unless the road is VERY smooth. I can understand a big pot hole making it move but mine turns and shakes all over the place, parramatta road makes my arms tired after driving on it.

So new tires will fix this ai? A lot of people told me it may be a leak in the steering pump hose...my steering is heavy as well compared to a mates euro.

What's this negative chamber business anyway? And why doedo the euro's always get out of alignment?

I found a useful site re: steering problems. http://www.aa1car.com/library/steerpul.htm

im expeiencing a lot of bump steer to the point i sometimes dont look forward to driving the car or am not confident with it, my sis's ford festiva built in 1997 is sometimes easier to drive, i really want to fix this bump steer issue.

Hello Schonda. Your steering problem sounds just like mine. Steering wheel pulled left or right over even small bumps. If like mine, yours is caused by uneven wear across each front tyre because they used to be on the back where the inner edges get very worn compared to outer edges, then you probably will need new tyres on front at least. If your tyres aren't too old maybe there is enough tread left that they they can be salvaged by some rotation - suggest you ask a specialist tyre supplier eg a Bridgestone outlet. I will be having my tyres looked after by one of those places from now on rather than a Honda dealer. Many tyre outlets like Bridgestone have maintenance programs wher they check the tyres and rotate them every 5000km. It costs a small amount for each visit but I suspect well worth it to extend the life of a $1300 set of tyres.
Re negative camber, I got the following from Wikipedia entry for "camber angle'. The article also has some great illustrations. Camber angle is the angle made by the wheels of a vehicle; specifically, it is the angle between the vertical axis of the wheels used for steering and the vertical axis of the vehicle when viewed from the front or rear. It is used in the design of steering and suspension. If the top of the wheel is farther out than the bottom (that is, away from the axle), it is called positive camber; if the bottom of the wheel is farther out than the top, it is called negative camber. Camber angle alters the handling qualities of a particular suspension design; in particular, negative camber improves grip when cornering. This is because it places the tire at a more optimal angle to the road, transmitting the forces through the vertical plane of the tire, rather than through a shear force across it. Another reason for negative camber is that a rubber tire tends to roll on itself while cornering. If the tire had zero camber, the inside edge of the contact patch would begin to lift off of the ground, thereby reducing the area of the contact patch. By applying negative camber, this effect is reduced, thereby maximizing the contact patch area. Note that this is only true for the outside tire during the turn; the inside tire would benefit most from positive camber.
Hope this helps and good luck.

[buddah51au]

Praja, tyre wear is related to many factors which include tyre pressure, rotation as well as how you drive the car. Personally I believe 34psi is too low on a CU2, I run 36 all round & put it up to 38 on long trips. The penalty is a firmer ride, the advantage is better fuel consumption.

I rotate my tyres every 5000km & always bring the spare into the rotation, so in theory at the end of the tyre life all tyres should be worn equally. Also remember that the front tyres on front wheel drive cars wear a lot more than rear tyres. I guess a ballpark figure for wear would be 80% front/ 20% rear. Wheel alignment is critical when it comes to tyre wear.

[tony1234]

Praja, tyre wear is related to many factors which include tyre pressure, rotation as well as how you drive the car. Personally I believe 34psi is too low on a CU2, I run 36 all round & put it up to 38 on long trips. The penalty is a firmer ride, the advantage is better fuel consumption.

I rotate my tyres every 5000km & always bring the spare into the rotation, so in theory at the end of the tyre life all tyres should be worn equally. Also remember that the front tyres on front wheel drive cars wear a lot more than rear tyres. I guess a ballpark figure for wear would be 80% front/ 20% rear. Wheel alignment is critical when it comes to tyre wear.

As above^^I reckon you need a good 4 wheel alignment.I had similar problems with my CL9.Once i found a place that can do a proper 4 wheel alignment these problems went away.Most tyre places are clueless when it comes to doing proper alignments.

[aaronng]

Bought my Euro new in Jan 2009. Came with Yokohama Decibel E70 tyres. Handled perfectly till a tyre rotation at 17000km. Then steered like a dog.

Eventhough the manual probably recommends a rotation every 15000km or so, it is actually more important to do it sooner, about 6000-10000km because you need to do it before the tyre wears unevenly. Current cars tend to have more camber on one end, so it wears more unevenly.

[Type R Positive]

As above^^I reckon you need a good 4 wheel alignment.I had similar problems with my CL9.Once i found a place that can do a proper 4 wheel alignment these problems went away.Most tyre places are clueless when it comes to doing proper alignments.
Yep. Lazer 4 wheel alignment FTW! I use Pedders when I can, they got all the good gear.
btw, the alignment has always been out every time I've had it done on the Honda.....

[buddah51au]

As above^^I reckon you need a good 4 wheel alignment.I had similar problems with my CL9.Once i found a place that can do a proper 4 wheel alignment these problems went away.Most tyre places are clueless when it comes to doing proper alignments.

Let me add Tony that a wheel alignment is only as good as the machine & the person using it. Many of the latest wheel alignment machines are electronic & often need recalibrating. It is possible for the same operator to put the same car on 2 separate wheel alignment machines & get 2 different readings. That is 1 major problem we all face

[praja6]

I found at 34 psi the edges wear out Praja. Buddah and I do mostly highway speeds too, 36psi and even higher help save fuel at the higher speeds. Also why mine wore out so quickly as higher speeds mean lots of premature tyre wear. Seeing as 99% of those 30,000kms were done at 110km/h....
Thought is the front tyres wear twice as quick as the rears, since they do all the work. Regular rotation is needed for regular wear.

Thanks Matt,

Today when i fill my tank, i put the airpressure 36psi for all 4 tyres... but i feel the ride is firmer and feel like bumping more than when i was using in 34psi. May i need to get use to it.. Other than that when braking or accelerating i dont feel any difference at all :)

[Type R Positive]

Thanks Matt,

Today when i fill my tank, i put the airpressure 36psi for all 4 tyres... but i feel the ride is firmer and feel like bumping more than when i was using in 34psi. May i need to get use to it.. Other than that when braking or accelerating i dont feel any difference at all :)Just monitor your tyre wear, what works for me (different tyres) might not work for you. :thumbsup:

[praja6]

Thanks Matt, Since my car is new, it still with the Yokohama Decibel 70 something.....You got same tyre with your base euro rite? I think with lux model it came with Michelin tyres...

[Type R Positive]

Yeah, I had the DB decibels. They were good and grippy (soft tread), but didn't last long.....

[buddah51au]

They cant be too soft a tread Matt, I believe yoko DB's come with 8.5mm tread depth when new. When I rotated Tyres @ 30,000km the lowest tread depth on any of my tyres was 6mm - so 2.5mm wear over 30,000 indicates a life expectancy of 60,000km +. I can live with that any time. Did you have alignment issues or uneven tread wear when you replaced yours @ 30k, or was the tread wear even on all tyres?

[Type R Positive]

Nah, one of the rears was buggered. Too many high speed runs to Perth too....
Cruise control and radar detectors are awesome inventions! (legal too before anyone has a sook...)

[EuroZed]

As above^^I reckon you need a good 4 wheel alignment.I had similar problems with my CL9.Once i found a place that can do a proper 4 wheel alignment these problems went away.Most tyre places are clueless when it comes to doing proper alignments.

where do u recommend alignment in Sydney?

[V205]

My OEM bridgestone (RE040?) on my CL-9 euro lux (225/45/17) were shredded on the inside (at the rear after about 25000km. I have rotated them from front to back once. And the rear were were very badly shredded by the time I had a puncture. I have since changed the front to RE001 and moved the half decent RE040 to the rear and it's almost 40,000km now without problems (after doing an alignment on a hunter (one of the best dynamic / thrust based) wheel align system).

In comparison, my 2002 CRV has been lucky, never done an aligntment and the OEM BF Goodrich has almost 80,000km (but due for a change in the next month of so).

[tony1234]

where do u recommend alignment in Sydney?

Heasmans at Sydenham or Tubbys Tyres at Kirrawee.

[d15z1SUX]

sounds like u had too much toe? with all the symptoms u described, bad wheel alignment id say.

[NSHonda]

Late 2008 CU2
51,000K's on Michelins, rotated religiously every 10,000k and keep pressure at 33psi front and rear
Still another 5K+ left on them
Wouldn't say I am the kindest driver to the tyres. Like to give the girl plenty whenever I can.

[Blue Euro]

NSHonda. You have doen really well to get 51000km. What type of Michies are you on? Were they the originals when the car was brand new?


Late 2008 CU2
51,000K's on Michelins, rotated religiously every 10,000k and keep pressure at 33psi front and rear
Still another 5K+ left on them
Wouldn't say I am the kindest driver to the tyres. Like to give the girl plenty whenever I can.

[tron07]

Heasmans at Sydenham or Tubbys Tyres at Kirrawee.

Heasman is good.... went there before.

Now I change to all bridgestone tires and they give free alignment and balancing, so far done 2 times at the place, no complains, rides well, though mine is on 16" rims. Its Bridgestone at Mascot, near the train station.

[rojak1]

you are lucky that your dealer is willing to foot half the bill.

my dealer advised me to 'look forward and stop going back to old issue' when i call them up about warranty issue.

i think it is purely luck when come to buying Honda from a dealer, it's like picking the right number out from hundreds.

I really hope Honda will run the business differently and open their own showroom rather than franchising the business out to unethical business owner.

[NSHonda]

Blue Euro

Michelin Premacy's 235 45 R18
Original tyres from brand new
Ride comfort is really good and grip is brillant at that pressure.

Have to admit I have been surprised, pleasantly surprised and will be putting the same tyre back on
Noticed other's talking about Yoko's and other brands. Surprised at the variation in OEM tyres fitted.

[Blue Euro]

NSHonda. What an amazing difference - over 51,000 km for your Michie Premacys but my Yoko decibel E70s were almost shot by 17,000 km and totally shot by 24,000 km. This is despite being on identical CU2 vehicles - in particular with built in, non-adjustable negative camber on the rear wheels that accelerates the tyres' inside edge wear. Your maintenance regime of rotation every 10,000 kms and 33 psi pressure is exactly that given to my Yokos. Both these tyres have good reputations. The Yokos are about 10% more expensive. About the only difference between our circumstances is that I don't "give the girl plenty whenever I can". Who has been doing your tyre maintenance program? They have done a great job. Is it your selling dealer? Who was that? I'll start going there myself for future servicing.

[buddah51au]

NSHonda. What an amazing difference - over 51,000 km for your Michie Premacys but my Yoko decibel E70s were almost shot by 17,000 km and totally shot by 24,000 km. This is despite being on identical CU2 vehicles - in particular with built in, non-adjustable negative camber on the rear wheels that accelerates the tyres' inside edge wear. Your maintenance regime of rotation every 10,000 kms and 33 psi pressure is exactly that given to my Yokos. Both these tyres have good reputations. The Yokos are about 10% more expensive. About the only difference between our circumstances is that I don't "give the girl plenty whenever I can". Who has been doing your tyre maintenance program? They have done a great job. Is it your selling dealer? Who was that? I'll start going there myself for future servicing.

You must have a problem with alignment or you give your tyres a realty hard time. My Yokohama Decibels are less than 1/2 worn after 30,000km running 36 psi. No sign of uneven or abnormal wear.

[NSHonda]

Use Westpoint Honda at Toowong.

They have their up's and down's like most but the service division I find ok

Long story about and Ipod connection and three attempts before it was fixed. Cable had moved from glovebox to centre console and head unit to stereo had to be replaced. You can imagine how impressed I was when originally told to buy a new Ipod as the unit wasn't compatible with Gen 3 units, but it now works with Gen 3, Gen 4 and Gen 5 just fine!!

Software updates to rectify pinging all loaded up at services with no problems and the minor issues all fixed

Can usually get it in next day as well at present so am happy with them

Probably won't get the new one through the dealer though, pre delivery was rushed, and door proctection pieces were put on poorly, door handle protection film was still "wet". Even the rego sticker was not straight - picky I know, but the wife picked that one up, not me!!

[natnat]

Blue Euro

Michelin Premacy's 235 45 R18
Original tyres from brand new
Ride comfort is really good and grip is brillant at that pressure.

Have to admit I have been surprised, pleasantly surprised and will be putting the same tyre back on
Noticed other's talking about Yoko's and other brands. Surprised at the variation in OEM tyres fitted.

The OEM tyres for all Standard CU2 are Yokohama E70 in 17". The OEM for Lux and Lux Navi is Michelin Primacy HP, which features "X" for low rolling resistance and extended milage per http://www.michelin.com.au/tyre/patterndetail/PassengerCar/PrimacyHP

But costs $370 each from Bob Jane and is made in France.

Below is the review on the Michelin:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Primacy-HP.htm

I had a drive Sydney - Melbourne return last week and was quite happy with the grip on the coastal national park roads and quiet ride. Averaged 7.1L/100km via Hume Hwy and 7.5L/100km via Pacific Highway :)

A few years ago my OEM Bridgestone tyres on a 2001 RAV4 lasted for 65,000km and the rear brakes pads still had some life left when i sold the car at 115,000kms and 9 yrs old :)

[Blue Euro]

You must have a problem with alignment or you give your tyres a realty hard time. My Yokohama Decibels are less than 1/2 worn after 30,000km running 36 psi. No sign of uneven or abnormal wear.

Hello buddah51au
We drive exactly the same car - '08 CU2 standard model with Yoko' Decibels. I go pretty easy on the car and the tyres so maybe I need to keep the alignment close to perfect. How often do have yours checked?

[buddah51au]

Hello buddah51au
We drive exactly the same car - '08 CU2 standard model with Yoko' Decibels. I go pretty easy on the car and the tyres so maybe I need to keep the alignment close to perfect. How often do have yours checked?

To date i have never had the alignment checked as the tyres are wearing evenly. However, as the car is almost 2 years old it is on my to do list before Xmas. IF I decide to stay with the original wheels i would not hesitate to use Yoko Decibels again.

[MKI4EVA]

very interesting post.........no wonder I felt the steering was abit more difficult after 30Kkm service when the tyres were rotated. Didn't make sense when front camber was unchanged.......but the rear tyres got camber wear I guess. Rear camber is about -1.1 as I got a wheel alignment as well.

[Blue Euro]

Update to my original post that started this thread off.

I thought some of you might be interested in some follow up information since dealer (Northside Honda at Nundah in Brisbane) fitted a new set of tyres to my Euro in November 2010. From the thread above you may recall that my OEM Yokos were problematic before 20,000 km and after 4 months of visits, denial, inspections and correspondence, NS Honda agreed to split the cost of 4 replacement tyres. I had to pay all of the associated wheel alignment cost of $80.

Once the replacement tyres had travelled 5,000 km, I decided to be proactive and have a specialist firm look at the tyre condition and make any adjustments necessary to promote tyre life. Fulcrum, Stafford (Brisbane) found the toe settings on the rear axle to be +5.7mm and +4.4mm individually. Total of +10.1mm. Fulcrum advised these amounts of toe were very much higher than normal and unnecessarily accelerated the wear of the tyres' outer edges. Fulcrum did a wheel alignment and as part of the process, reduced the amount of toe on the rear wheels to normal settings.

Of course I should not have had to spend $110 on this given that only 4 months before I paid $80 to NS Honda for a wheel alignment. But I am glad I did as it looks like it has saved many hundreds of dollars by avoiding another premature replacement of tyres.

I emailed Northside Honda's Dealer Principal, Customer Retention Manager and Honda Australia's Qld Manager to tell them about this latest development. That was 6 weeks ago and I have had no response.

[maclovin]

Then steered like a dog. It became difficult to hold a straight line on slightly uneven road surfaces. The vehicle also did not easily steer out of even the shallowest bitumen rut – something I have since learned that the steering/suspension industry calls “tram-tracking”. Apart from becoming unpleasant to drive, the car was unsafe in some circumstances. While braking at slower speeds over a bumpy surface, the steering wheel needed to be held firmly to avoid sudden unwanted turning to the left or right. Eight months of frustration followed.

Have the same problem with yours. My 2010 accord euro steered like a dog on slightly uneven surface. How do I fix this problem? Should I bring the car back to Honda dealer? FYI, I just bought the car 6 months ago. All of the tyres still ok after 4000kms. I am planning to travel down to Sydney this easter. Do you reckon I should fix this thing up before the long trip?

[Blue Euro]

Have the same problem with yours. My 2010 accord euro steered like a dog on slightly uneven surface. How do I fix this problem? Should I bring the car back to Honda dealer? FYI, I just bought the car 6 months ago. All of the tyres still ok after 4000kms. I am planning to travel down to Sydney this easter. Do you reckon I should fix this thing up before the long trip?

Hello Maclovin
Given your car is still under warranty you should be able to have your selling dealer assess and fix. However my selling dealer denied the existence of a problem for months. In the end I took the car to a specialist supension firm to find out what was going on. Given you need quick action before Easter, I would take the car to a specialist like Fulcrum Suspensions. I went to Fulcrum, Stafford in Brisbane who were very good. They go through a wheel alignment process, take measurements of camber, caster, toe etc and then make the required adjustments. Cost was $110 in February. From now on I will be getting all tyre related servicing done there or somewhere similar rather than during dealer servicing.
Good luck.

[Type R Positive]

Update to my original post that started this thread off.

I thought some of you might be interested in some follow up information since dealer (Northside Honda at Nundah in Brisbane) fitted a new set of tyres to my Euro in November 2010. From the thread above you may recall that my OEM Yokos were problematic before 20,000 km and after 4 months of visits, denial, inspections and correspondence, NS Honda agreed to split the cost of 4 replacement tyres. I had to pay all of the associated wheel alignment cost of $80.

Once the replacement tyres had travelled 5,000 km, I decided to be proactive and have a specialist firm look at the tyre condition and make any adjustments necessary to promote tyre life. Fulcrum, Stafford (Brisbane) found the toe settings on the rear axle to be +5.7mm and +4.4mm individually. Total of +10.1mm. Fulcrum advised these amounts of toe were very much higher than normal and unnecessarily accelerated the wear of the tyres' outer edges. Fulcrum did a wheel alignment and as part of the process, reduced the amount of toe on the rear wheels to normal settings.

Of course I should not have had to spend $110 on this given that only 4 months before I paid $80 to NS Honda for a wheel alignment. But I am glad I did as it looks like it has saved many hundreds of dollars by avoiding another premature replacement of tyres.

I emailed Northside Honda's Dealer Principal, Customer Retention Manager and Honda Australia's Qld Manager to tell them about this latest development. That was 6 weeks ago and I have had no response.Well you were told to get a wheel allignment. That's not really honda's problem, you're lucky they paid 1/2. Mine were gone in 30k kms, due to the driving I did. Wheel allignment is out heaps every time I get it checked every 20k kms. I suggest you do the same and get it checked regularly too.

[buddah51au]

Regular wheel alignments are a necessity, especially if you drive on rougher roads. I now have 37,000km on my CU2, tyres are not quite 1/2 worn & have given me no problems whatsoever. Bear in mind I rotate every 5,000km Bringing the spare into the rotation sequence.

[maclovin]

Hello Maclovin
Given your car is still under warranty you should be able to have your selling dealer assess and fix. However my selling dealer denied the existence of a problem for months. In the end I took the car to a specialist supension firm to find out what was going on. Given you need quick action before Easter, I would take the car to a specialist like Fulcrum Suspensions. I went to Fulcrum, Stafford in Brisbane who were very good. They go through a wheel alignment process, take measurements of camber, caster, toe etc and then make the required adjustments. Cost was $110 in February. From now on I will be getting all tyre related servicing done there or somewhere similar rather than during dealer servicing.
Good luck.

Thanks Blue euro. Definitely going to give them a call, first thing tomorrow morning. I told them the problem when I did the 1000 km service. The service representative told me, it is normal cause the road pretty uneven. Does anyone know where is the best place to get wheel alignment in melbourne? Thanks in advance

[NSHonda]

Am now running Conti Contact Sport 2's on my 08 Lux (235 45 R18)
Elected to go with the Nitrogen - got a specials book with the tyres so cost of nitrogen is reduced when I do need it

Have found it to be excellent. Bit like the fuel comparison on the idiot box last night, you really do get what you pay for. Reckon the fuel economy using nitrogen has improved and the car handles better, brakes better - seat of the pants opinion only though.

Took car back to Jax with just over 5K on the tyres (dealer had rotated them at 60K service (done at 61K to be precise) Check of tyres revealed them to be wearing evenly. Only needed a minor top up of the gas and cost me nothing.
Benefits of nitrogen if you are not aware
Less loss of pressure (hadn't touched the tyres for 2.5 months)
Not subject to hot / cold as much as air
More even pressure across face of tyre hence more even wear (by the way, driving around town wears tyres more than long high speed country driving - more corners / braking swerving to avoid the idiots etc)

Was skeptical at first but when I looked at the benefits versues the cost, though I should give it a go
Seems to be paying off - touch wood.

[Blue Euro]

Maclovin

I think Fulcrum is a Queensland chain of outlets. Suggest you try Pedders Suspension who provide the same services. They have lots of Melbourne locations.

Good luck

[MKI4EVA]

Update to my original post that started this thread off.

I thought some of you might be interested in some follow up information since dealer (Northside Honda at Nundah in Brisbane) fitted a new set of tyres to my Euro in November 2010. From the thread above you may recall that my OEM Yokos were problematic before 20,000 km and after 4 months of visits, denial, inspections and correspondence, NS Honda agreed to split the cost of 4 replacement tyres. I had to pay all of the associated wheel alignment cost of $80.

Once the replacement tyres had travelled 5,000 km, I decided to be proactive and have a specialist firm look at the tyre condition and make any adjustments necessary to promote tyre life. Fulcrum, Stafford (Brisbane) found the toe settings on the rear axle to be +5.7mm and +4.4mm individually. Total of +10.1mm. Fulcrum advised these amounts of toe were very much higher than normal and unnecessarily accelerated the wear of the tyres' outer edges. Fulcrum did a wheel alignment and as part of the process, reduced the amount of toe on the rear wheels to normal settings.

Of course I should not have had to spend $110 on this given that only 4 months before I paid $80 to NS Honda for a wheel alignment. But I am glad I did as it looks like it has saved many hundreds of dollars by avoiding another premature replacement of tyres.

I emailed Northside Honda's Dealer Principal, Customer Retention Manager and Honda Australia's Qld Manager to tell them about this latest development. That was 6 weeks ago and I have had no response.


So you got replacement tyres then 5,000km later you got a wheel alignment? or did you get an alignment pre and post replacing tyres?

I was very suprised with the rear toe on my car being about 2.7 out.

I think the only way to increase tyre life on the euro's is to rotate at least every 5,000km as a minimum.

[Blue Euro]

Hello MK114EVA
When dealer replaced my tyres they also did a wheel alignment. Given the poor tyre life from the OEMs, I decided to have the new tyres checked out after they had travelled 5000km.
I agree that rotating or at least getting an expert tyre check every 5000km will help prolong tyre life. I will use Fulcrum or Pedders or similar for this rather than my dealer. See buddah51AU's posts on this thread - he does 5000km rotations and is getting great wear from his OEMs. As I recall, he's a retired mechanic and so should know a lot about this.

[buddah51au]

Yes, I know a little on this subject as early in my mechanical life (right after I finished my apprenticeship) I spent a couple of years working for Goodyear, mainly to increase my knowledge base as basically they specialise in front end & brake repairs, along with more wheel alignments than I care to remember.

It's ok to say get a wheel alignment every 20,000km, but what people don't realise is that a wheel alignment comes down to 2 things - !. Does the operator know what he is doing, does he take pride in his work & spend a few extra minutes on each vehicle to make sure he gets it right or does he just want to push vehicles out the door as quick as he can (Bob Jane style). 2. Modern Electronic Wheel Alignment Machines can easily get out of calibration (a knock to 1 of the head units). I found that often no 2 machines will give exactly the same reading. I would recommend people stay away from Tyre Dealers & get their wheel alignments done through specialists, eg ; Pedders, Fulcrum dealers, etc.

As for my 5,000km rotations, I have always brought the spare into the rotation sequence. At my last rotation (35,000km) I measured & noted down the remaining tread depth on each tyre. In future rotations I will be monitoring the tread depth & positioning the tyres accordingly - less tread wear to front - most tread wear to rear. The advantage of this approach is you get maximum tyre life from your tyres, the disadvantage is that when the time comes to replace tyres you will need to buy 5 instead of 4.

[MKI4EVA]

Yes, I know a little on this subject as early in my mechanical life (right after I finished my apprenticeship) I spent a couple of years working for Goodyear, mainly to increase my knowledge base as basically they specialise in front end & brake repairs, along with more wheel alignments than I care to remember.

It's ok to say get a wheel alignment every 20,000km, but what people don't realise is that a wheel alignment comes down to 2 things - !. Does the operator know what he is doing, does he take pride in his work & spend a few extra minutes on each vehicle to make sure he gets it right or does he just want to push vehicles out the door as quick as he can (Bob Jane style). 2. Modern Electronic Wheel Alignment Machines can easily get out of calibration (a knock to 1 of the head units). I found that often no 2 machines will give exactly the same reading. I would recommend people stay away from Tyre Dealers & get their wheel alignments done through specialists, eg ; Pedders, Fulcrum dealers, etc.

As for my 5,000km rotations, I have always brought the spare into the rotation sequence. At my last rotation (35,000km) I measured & noted down the remaining tread depth on each tyre. In future rotations I will be monitoring the tread depth & positioning the tyres accordingly - less tread wear to front - most tread wear to rear. The advantage of this approach is you get maximum tyre life from your tyres, the disadvantage is that when the time comes to replace tyres you will need to buy 5 instead of 4.

how do you accurately measure wear on a tyre? so you know which to put to the front?

dealers give a % reading........but I have no idea how they do it.

[buddah51au]

I have a set of Vernia Calipers (most accurate) as well as a tread depth gauge. There is a piece of paper on top of my spare with tread depths at last rotation.

[Fredoops]

Funnily enough my car's steering is acting funny lately too.

It's been pulling to the left ever since I had the brake rotors replaced, as you do in a Honda Brake rotor replacement. You hammer the shit out of the rotors just to get those God damn screws out. And as you do that...

Anyway. I got a wheel alignment done.... and Now it pulling less to the left but still pulls to the left

Just today I found the steering wheel is actually not centered, it's actually leaning to the left a bit......
So when I center the steering wheel proper it's pulling to the right pretty bad.

AHHHH this is annoying, it pulls to the right or left... ANYTHING BUT going straight. damn it.

It's going back into the shop on Tuesday.


GAHHH When is the Optima Turbo coming... I wanna trade the CL9 in....

[rodh257]

I've just bought an 04 Euro and have noticed some of the things described in this thread. At first it didn't bother me, but now it's starting to, occasionally seems to just pull to the left a bit, feels like it has a mind of its own.

So a wheel alignment at a good place sounds like the cheapest start. What do I look for on the tyres to see if I have this camber issue? Heaving wearing on inside edges of front tyres?

[Type R Positive]

GAHHH When is the Optima Turbo coming... I wanna trade the CL9 in....
What happened to the Skoda lol?

[Fredoops]

What happened to the Skoda lol?

Skoda is nice and all... But. Having the 118TSI tuned it'll give me approx 160-170kw.. I.Need.more.power.Than.That.

Lol

[natnat]

Skoda is nice and all... But. Having the 118TSI tuned it'll give me approx 160-170kw.. I.Need.more.power.Than.That.

Lol

get the 2.0L TSI one, then put K04 turbo conversion, you'll get 224kw atw :p

[Fredoops]

get the 2.0L TSI one, then put K04 turbo conversion, you'll get 224kw atw :p

Superb doesn't come in the 2.0T or panoramic roof, the Kia makes 202kw bog standard. Not to mention a killer infinity sound system.

A cousin of mine got one in the states, can't say I'm not converted, but I'll leave my option open lol.

[natnat]

Superb doesn't come in the 2.0T, and the Kia makes 202kw bog standard.

it's 224kw at the wheel on an actual dyno run, and >400nm of torque. there is a loss of 20%-30% in kw through the drivetrain.

so that Kia would probably be 150kw at the wheel assuming 25% loss on dyno.

[SPQR]

Nah, one of the rears was buggered. Too many high speed runs to Perth too....
Cruise control and radar detectors are awesome inventions! (legal too before anyone has a sook...)

Haha. Only in WA. Confiscation everywhere else including NT. Go to gaol in police-state-Victoria!