Best Cam Upgrade for a B18c2?

[Vvvtec]

Hey fellas!

I'm looking to upgrade the cams in m VTi-R, and I'm just wondering what Cams you recommend for this motor.

Supporting mods will be Skunk2 IM and TB, with an Injen CAI.

Would Type R cams give the same gains say Skunk2 Stage 1 cams would?

Thankyou :)

[MikeyG]

whats your budget?

if its kinda low then go whole type interanls... but you should invest in a type r gearbox first... sell your vtir box then with that money buy type r internals

[NSPYRE]

as above, whats your budget and goal?

if you want similar gains to Type R cams, perhaps have a look at Buddy Club Spec III+

no drivability loss for street and its pretty much drop in and go (no stand-alone ECU neccesary), however i'd recommend changing to OEM ITR dual valve springs. do you have a good header and exhaust setup already?

the problem with the B18C2 is that many of the aftermarket cams require ATLEAST the compression ratio of ITR.. are you considering building up your bottom end with some hi-comp pistons?

also, +1 on changing your gearbox first. will do heaps more than cams will.

[Touge Tom]

speaking of buddyclub spec3+ cams, why doe's everybody compare them to ITR cam's when the spe3+ yeild a longer duration (in-296/ex-290). while the ITR's only have (in-243/ex-235). i have spec3+ in my B20b/p72-head. i notice more mid/top end. so they should be a better choice. would someone please tell me different?

[NSPYRE]

i dont know about anyone else, but the reason i compare the two is because their lift values are almost identical. my presumption was the longer duration just placed the power-band higher in the rpm range..
from what I have gathered hearing through various people and seeing some dyno sheets (dont ask me for them as i cannot be bothered with uni exams going on) is that the difference between OEM ITR and BC III+ is marginal. however, going from B18C2 to BC III+ is well worth it.

Touge Tom, you mentioned u had the P72 head, correct? thus i imagine you would have noticed quite a significant gain over the stock cams...

[Touge Tom]

Yeah definatly. Reason why I bought spec3+ was to increase my rev range. Cos having the longer duration would help me reach 10k+. Just haven't gotten round to buying a hondata s200/300 yet. Still running it of a p30 ecu.

[pinoy-boi]

wholey abortions touge tom...... u want to rev ur b20 vtec to 10,000 Rpm.

what specs is ur motor if u dnt mind me asking?

[dougie_504]

I reckon get an exhaust first, then build your head (the whole thing, not just cam-swap).

[Touge Tom]

Fully built. All forged internals. Welded in block guard. 13 compression 84.5mm pistons. I/m/h/e. type-r g/box. Spec3+ cams. 71mm/tb. I've just been too lazy to get round to doing the ecu. Runs great. Its daily driven, not garaged and hidden for just the weekends.

[pinoy-boi]

Fully built. All forged internals. Welded in block guard. 13 compression 84.5mm pistons. I/m/h/e. type-r g/box. Spec3+ cams. 71mm/tb. I've just been too lazy to get round to doing the ecu. Runs great. Its daily driven, not garaged and hidden for just the weekends.

do u mind pm'ing me specs. im running a similar setup in mine. im doing the run in tune atm nd its doing 100fwkws running low cam only and 6k rev cut

[Vvvtec]

as above, whats your budget and goal?

if you want similar gains to Type R cams, perhaps have a look at Buddy Club Spec III+

no drivability loss for street and its pretty much drop in and go (no stand-alone ECU neccesary), however i'd recommend changing to OEM ITR dual valve springs. do you have a good header and exhaust setup already?

the problem with the B18C2 is that many of the aftermarket cams require ATLEAST the compression ratio of ITR.. are you considering building up your bottom end with some hi-comp pistons?

also, +1 on changing your gearbox first. will do heaps more than cams will.

Thanks man, this is the type of answer I was hoping to get.

My goal, and why I was looking into doing this, is I'm after abit more sniff in the mid range. I would just like abit more power for those drives through through the mountains. Im not looking to build a straight line warrior. Anything that can put me close/equal to a stock Type R I guess?

As for Headers and Exhaust, no I do not have a good set up yet. The more I research the more Im realising I should probably get my engine breathing properly before upgrading camshafts. I think I'll finish off the I/H/E combo, then think about swapping these cams.

As for building the bottom end, I'm not sure if I'm prepared to go that distance just yet. That's why I was looking at the Skunk2 (and now Buddy Club) cams because they are designed specifically for the C2. The Buddy Club cams infact look like the best option.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BUDDY-CLUB-SPEC-III-3-CAMSHAFT-CAMS-B16A-B18C-TYPE-R-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c51478e61QQitemZ19034 2205025QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts

Along with another $150 for OEM Springs and Retainers.

Realistically, would I expect to see a vast improvement over the stock cams?

Also thanks MikeyG for your input too!

[Vvvtec]

And as for budget, considering the AUS $$$ being so strong, I was hoping to spend somewhere around $550 shipped?

[DC2-PWR]

Hey Alex,

BC Spec III cams need to be tuned, it takes at least 3-4hrs to get it tuned. On that, thats $150-$250per/hr on a dyno. First they will make a base line run, then adjust the cam gears then make another run. They will continue to do this until the car reaches peak power.

My close freind told me he spent $1,400.00 and that its not worth the money unless you going to track, these cams you can tune them to track spec to reach them to its full potential, or just a street tune which then people start complaining "oh I didn't feel $hit".

Good luck Alex,

[dougie_504]

Thanks man, this is the type of answer I was hoping to get.

My goal, and why I was looking into doing this, is I'm after abit more sniff in the mid range. I would just like abit more power for those drives through through the mountains. Im not looking to build a straight line warrior. Anything that can put me close/equal to a stock Type R I guess?

As for Headers and Exhaust, no I do not have a good set up yet. The more I research the more Im realising I should probably get my engine breathing properly before upgrading camshafts. I think I'll finish off the I/H/E combo, then think about swapping these cams.

As for building the bottom end, I'm not sure if I'm prepared to go that distance just yet. That's why I was looking at the Skunk2 (and now Buddy Club) cams because they are designed specifically for the C2. The Buddy Club cams infact look like the best option.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BUDDY-CLUB-SPEC-III-3-CAMSHAFT-CAMS-B16A-B18C-TYPE-R-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c51478e61QQitemZ19034 2205025QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts

Along with another $150 for OEM Springs and Retainers.

Realistically, would I expect to see a vast improvement over the stock cams?

Also thanks MikeyG for your input too!

I strongly recommend just finishing the I/H/E first before you turn to the cams. A good 4-2-1 header, hi-flow cat and a 60mm pre-fab exhaust would be a good option. I say this because modifying the head is something you should only really do once, rather than keep opening it up again and again. So I would say when you do the head, get a port job done, do the full valvetrain and cams.

As for cams, I'm using the Skunk2 Stage 1 cam shafts in my JDM B16A CRX with the Skunk2 adjustable cam gears. Although it needs a proper tune I've found that I have some more responsiveness down low, but the power has mostly shifted to the top-end (6500-9000 RPM).

I'm also using Supertech springs which were measured to fit by a machine shop, and Supertech titanium retainers. You can probably make do with OEM springs/retainers but you should upgrade them for reliability when you do your cam shafts because of the resulting extra strain. But the springs can't just be thrown in - they'll need to be measured to within a thousandth of a millimeter or so.


And as for budget, considering the AUS $$$ being so strong, I was hoping to spend somewhere around $550 shipped?

$550 I can't believe they're so cheap, but stage 3 won't give you mid-range power. That'll be top-end power for sure and probably at the expense of low/mid range.
For street driveability and some entertainment stage 1 is a great idea from my experience - don't be tricked into thinking you're not hard enough because you only went stage 1 instead of stage 3 or stage 6 etc. The higher you go the less practical your car becomes as I'm sure you already knew :)

[NSPYRE]

BC Spec III cams need to be tuned

Not true. BC Spec III can be run safely without tune. Of course, you will get more out of it if you take the time and effort to do so.



$550 I can't believe they're so cheap, but stage 3 won't give you mid-range power. That'll be top-end power for sure and probably at the expense of low/mid range.
For street driveability and some entertainment stage 1 is a great idea from my experience - don't be tricked into thinking you're not hard enough because you only went stage 1 instead of stage 3 or stage 6 etc. The higher you go the less practical your car becomes as I'm sure you already knew :)

*cough* Buddy Club Spec III+ is their entry level cam and the least aggresive of its range. Just because it says Spec III does not mean it equates to Skunk2 Pro Series 3 or TODA Spec C or JUN Type 3. Please do your research on cam profiles first before providing misleading information. BC Spec III+ was designed for mostly mid-range with improvement up top without sacrificing too much low end. It is essentially a street spec cam, and thus probably perfect for the OP as he's not a serious racer and the cam does not require extensive supporting mods.

To the OP: Good work on doing your research and coming up with the conclusion to complete your header and exhaust setup :thumbsup: Let us know on what you choose.

[Touge Tom]

Not true. BC Spec III can be run safely without tune. Of course, you will get more out of it if you take the time and effort to do so.



*cough* Buddy Club Spec III+ is their entry level cam and the least aggresive of its range. Just because it says Spec III does not mean it equates to Skunk2 Pro Series 3 or TODA Spec C or JUN Type 3. Please do your research on cam profiles first before providing misleading information. BC Spec III+ was designed for mostly mid-range with improvement up top without sacrificing too much low end. It is essentially a street spec cam, and thus probably perfect for the OP as he's not a serious racer and the cam does not require extensive supporting mods.

To the OP: Good work on doing your research and coming up with the conclusion to complete your header and exhaust setup :thumbsup: Let us know on what you choose.

anybody got the lift and duration spec's on the skunk2, toda or jun cams i'd really like to compare these to the buddyclub cam's? as every where i look on the net it seems to me these other cams have less duration. as it is the duration that affects bumping up the rev range, which interests me.

[simmy]

whats best cam upgrade for stock b20 vtec, with b16 head, will getting getting bigger valves and springs also

[NSPYRE]

anybody got the lift and duration spec's on the skunk2, toda or jun cams i'd really like to compare these to the buddyclub cam's? as every where i look on the net it seems to me these other cams have less duration. as it is the duration that affects bumping up the rev range, which interests me.

Off the top of my head, all three of those cams have a lift value greater than 12mm. I see where you're getting a little confused. The duration value advertised on Buddy Club sites and quoted elsewhere is the duration spec at full lift (INT 296, EX 290). Other cam manufacturers such as Skunk2, TODA, and JUN advertise their cam duration spec at 1mm lift. Therefore, the BC Spec III+ cam has a duration spec of INT 250 @ 1mm, EX 245 @ 1mm

Hope this clears things up for you :)

[Touge Tom]

i just checked out skunk2 pro series 3 cam specs and they are:intake is 277 duration/13.mm lift and the exhaust is 284 duration/12.4 lift

where as the buddyclub spec 3+ intake 296 duration/ 11.4 lift and the exhaust is 290 duration/ 11.8 lift

seams to me that with the higher lift of the skunk2 pro 3's would make more mid range and less top end cos there's less duration thus having less affect on widening the rev limit of the b series engine?

am i right or not. please let me know?

[NSPYRE]

i just checked out skunk2 pro series 3 cam specs and they are:intake is 277 duration/13.mm lift and the exhaust is 284 duration/12.4 lift

where as the buddyclub spec 3+ intake 296 duration/ 11.4 lift and the exhaust is 290 duration/ 11.8 lift

seams to me that with the higher lift of the skunk2 pro 3's would make more mid range and less top end cos there's less duration thus having less affect on widening the rev limit of the b series engine?

am i right or not. please let me know?

Refer to my post above yours :)

[Touge Tom]

Off the top of my head, all three of those cams have a lift value greater than 12mm. I see where you're getting a little confused. The duration value advertised on Buddy Club sites and quoted elsewhere is the duration spec at full lift (INT 296, EX 290). Other cam manufacturers such as Skunk2, TODA, and JUN advertise their cam duration spec at 1mm lift. Therefore, the BC Spec III+ cam has a duration spec of INT 250 @ 1mm, EX 245 @ 1mm

Hope this clears things up for you :)

i was just looking @ the BC site and weather i could be reading it wrong or what? but it states on the intake cam at 1mm open @ 25 deg BTDC/ 1mm open @ 45 deg ABDC. surely this means the valve is open 296 deg between these two points? right?

[NSPYRE]

i was just looking @ the BC site and weather i could be reading it wrong or what? but it states on the intake cam at 1mm open @ 25 deg BTDC/ 1mm open @ 45 deg ABDC. surely this means the valve is open 296 deg between these two points? right?

BC Spec III Plus

Intake: 11.4 mm lift - 25 BTDC (1mm open) - 45 ABDC (1mm open)
Exhaust: 11.8 mm lift - 45 BBDC (1mm open) - 20 ATDC (1mm open)

http://www.wallaceracing.com/camcalc.php

Input these values into the calculator to get your answer

Thus, at full lift:

Cam Lift: INT 11.4mm | EX 11.8mm
Duration: INT 296 | EX 290


EDIT: Re-written values to how it should look.

[Touge Tom]

BC Spec III Plus

Intake: 11.4 mm lift - 25 BTDC (1mm open) - 45 ABDC (1mm open)
Exhaust: 11.8 mm lift - 45 BBDC (1mm open) - 20 ATDC (1mm open)

http://www.wallaceracing.com/camcalc.php

Input these values into the calculator to get your answer

Thus, at full lift:

Cam Lift: INT 11.4mm | EX 11.8mm
Duration: INT 296 | EX 290


EDIT: Re-written values to how it should look.

ok thanks mate. if so what is the cam with the greatest duration on the market?

[NSPYRE]

ok thanks mate. if so what is the cam with the greatest duration on the market?

All good :)

AFAIK, off the shelf would be Skunk2 Pro Series Stage 3, but dont quote me on that...

[pinoy-boi]

NSPYRE great work, rep points for u sir. good 2 see some nice pipol still on forums, that dnt attack wen pipol wen they get confused about specs and what not

[vinnY]

just putting it out there, got some buddyclub spec3+ in my b18c7 with the regular ihe with a 65mm tb and some cam gears(forgot what they're dialed in for)
felt about the same with the stock ecu, way more responsive after a proper tune

[Vvvtec]

NSPYRE great work, rep points for u sir. good 2 see some nice pipol still on forums, that dnt attack wen pipol wen they get confused about specs and what not

+256788543!! Your a champ! Thanks for the insight.

So relatively speaking, the Buddy Club's are the way to go for a 'drop in' upgrade? The plan is to eventually go for a tune once everything is in.

[Vvvtec]

just putting it out there, got some buddyclub spec3+ in my b18c7 with the regular ihe with a 65mm tb and some cam gears(forgot what they're dialed in for)
felt about the same with the stock ecu, way more responsive after a proper tune

Interesting. How big was the improvement after the tune? And did you pay a million dollars for the tune?

[dougie_504]

Not true. BC Spec III can be run safely without tune. Of course, you will get more out of it if you take the time and effort to do so.



*cough* Buddy Club Spec III+ is their entry level cam and the least aggresive of its range. Just because it says Spec III does not mean it equates to Skunk2 Pro Series 3 or TODA Spec C or JUN Type 3. Please do your research on cam profiles first before providing misleading information. BC Spec III+ was designed for mostly mid-range with improvement up top without sacrificing too much low end. It is essentially a street spec cam, and thus probably perfect for the OP as he's not a serious racer and the cam does not require extensive supporting mods.

To the OP: Good work on doing your research and coming up with the conclusion to complete your header and exhaust setup :thumbsup: Let us know on what you choose.


Thanks for that, I had no idea and assumed wrong!

But still the tune will be required to get the most out of them, and then we're looking well beyond the initial price of $550 surely? ECU and tuned we're probably looking at $1500+?

[vinnY]

had about 10-15kw gain everywhere after tune
tune price doesn't matter since it goes from tuner to tuner

[_bORdO_]

if you want similar gains to Type R cams, perhaps have a look at Buddy Club Spec III+


BC Spec III Plus
Cam Lift: INT 11.4mm | EX 11.8mm
Duration: INT 296 | EX 290


Whats the cam lift and duration for typeR cams
Cheers.

[Vvvtec]

Anyone got any experience with Brian Crower products?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRIAN-CROWER-STAGE-2-CAMS-CAMSHAFTS-ACURA-INTEGRA-GSR-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a89fc878QQitemZ23046 2310520QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

[_bORdO_]

--> http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?141408-Brian-Crower-Stage-2-cams <--

[89lude]

fgk powergetter for sale here. for dc2, quiet quiet no defects and good gains! cheaper than buying cams, computer, tune...

[dougie_504]

I go +1 for the FGK PG. I picked one up cheap for my brother's DC4 with a 2.5" Magnaflow cat. Quiet, good gains, doesn't hang too low etc.

[joe.teg]

hey guys, i have a dc2 vti-r 95 model. At the start of this year i did.
Blox B cams
Blox Dual valve springs
Blox retainers
Blox cam gears (set to +2 degrees intake and +1 degree exhaust)
Skunk IM + 68mm TB
T1R headers
Full 2.25in exhaust (Crappy custom job)
Injen CAI
Full port and polish (Port matched in and ex with machined valve seats and modified valves)
Hondata S100
Toda tune

All up it cost me about 4.5k. Whoever was asking about a tune it cost me about $1350
The car just made 131.4kw at the wheels

The blox cams are good, nice idle, a little bit lumpy if the idle is set to standard but mine is set to around 1100rpm so its quite smooth. The power is really good and its nice and responsive aswell.

The specs are 12.0mm lift exhast with 266 degrees duration (vtec) and 12.4mm lift intake with 266 degrees duration (vtec). Im not sure about the primary lobes but im told that theyre slightly bigger than standard.

If you guys are sceptical about the power output, Yonas from JDM Yard has my dyno sheet.

Thanks
Joe

[Vvvtec]

Nice work mate!

That is probably the extent that I'd like to go to with modding my car. 131kw atw is very very respectable!

[joe.teg]

thanks man.
im doin a hi comp b20 bottom end about april next year with a hondata s300 and a new catback. i should also point out that those power figures were made with the standard audm dc2 cat converter that has done 180,000 kms lol. so atm the exhaust is killing the power of the car, i recond with a fugitsubo or another similar brand catback and a hi flow ill ad about 5-10kw easily

[_bORdO_]

Just found this,
Not sure if this helps anyone with anything



Stock Integra Vtir/gsr cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 10.6mm, duration is 230 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 9.mm, duration is 227 degree @ 1mm

ITR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

CTR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 243 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

Toda A cams
Intake lift - 11.6mm, duration is 250 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.2mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm

Toda B cams
Intake lift - 12mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm

Toda C cams
Intake lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm

Spoon cams
Intake lift - 11.54mm, duration is 256 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.13mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm



link to the thread is here
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?2887-TODA-Cams-VS-CTR-Cams-VS-SIR-2-Cams&highlight=cam+set