Question to the people who track d series hondas.

[Renaissance_x]

Do you have LSD's fitted and how do you go out on track?

[Riced_Civic]

no LSD.

how do i go on the track i dont care its about the fun.

but if u want to know i got a 1:50 at winton with my EK with coilovers

[dougie_504]

Quite an expensive investment for your D-series mate. Most people tracking D's just do it because it's cheap/fun as per the usual spirit of the D. I'd be surprised if any significant portion of those people has invested in an LSD rather than just swap their engine to an LSD-equipped B- or K-series.

[Mikecivic78]

Probably to it's very low cost-effectiveness, Ive never heard of this on a d-series. It's just not worth it and saving more money for a B16a motor swap would be much more logical

[mugen_ctr]

m factory is what $700? so its not too expensive compared to other lsd on the market like Quaife which is 1k+

B16a has no lsd, so again, no gain there....

good investment if u plan to do more than 2-3 track or events a year, so imo, i think is worth it, regardless of what engine it is :)

[dougie_504]

m factory is what $700? so its not too expensive compared to other lsd on the market like Quaife which is 1k+

B16a has no lsd, so again, no gain there....

good investment if u plan to do more than 2-3 track or events a year, so imo, i think is worth it, regardless of what engine it is :)

Some of the B16's have optional LSD.

As for Quiafe VS M Factory for me it's an easy choice: Quiafe.

[mugen_ctr]

Some of the B16's have optional LSD.

As for Quiafe VS M Factory for me it's an easy choice: Quiafe.

point taken about b16

Well i dont know anyone in the country that run a quiafe, most tend to run the cheaper mfactory an it works well. But in saying so, quiafe is much more reputable in many ways, especially when it comes to racing, an there results speak for them selfs, so really you pay for what u get for, $700 lsd vs 1k lsd.... difference is in the results :)

[xclusive_eg8]

some of the JDM D15B gearboxes came out with LSD from factory. Good luck finding one here though

[vtecing]

done a couple track days in my stock eg5. I was still faster than a few of the $40k+ cars there and only understeered on corner entry a couple times. I was using shit ku36 too. If I was tracking a d-series often, it would only be a very basic set up any way which would not warrant and LSD.

[TheSaint]

some of the JDM D15B gearboxes came out with LSD from factory. Good luck finding one here though

they arnt as rare as you might think - i have seen a fair few of them around

and theres even more auto LSD box's around lawl

as for the D-series on the track - they are SUPER DUPER cheap to build
when i owned my Dc2 (B18c) i had no faith in them AT ALL lol
but since iv been hanging out on dseries.org and playing with my D15b my eyes are OPEN
all they need is a bit of unlocking and they are fun as hell to play with
just dont expect miracles lol

[NightKids]

done a couple track days in my stock eg5. I was still faster than a few of the $40k+ cars there and only understeered on corner entry a couple times. I was using shit ku36 too. If I was tracking a d-series often, it would only be a very basic set up any way which would not warrant and LSD.

What $40K cars were u beating? 4WDs?

[TheSaint]

What $40K cars were u beating? 4WDs?

alot of ppl with expensive cars cant drive for crap
alot of ppl with cheap cars can drive really well
visa versa visa versa lol

[Mikecivic78]

alot of ppl with expensive cars cant drive for crap
alot of ppl with cheap cars can drive really well
visa versa visa versa lol

Well said

[e240]

As for Quiafe VS M Factory for me it's an easy choice: Quiafe.

There's some facts you should know, this was in a discussion in another forum.
Unless you have actually used our products, you are not making an informed point here - you're just going by hearsay and marketing hype.

let me know if you have any further questions.



small clarification on the mfactory lsd

the mfactory unit is not a reverse engineer of quaife or obx, neither are these made by the same manufacturer.

We have our gears manufactured to our specifications and we apply our own high standards to its manufacture as a result, our finishing and tolerances are much better than obx and competitors albeit still managing to offer at a competitive price.

Mfactory lsd are fast gaining popularity in the us because of competitive pricing and high quality.

"gain a prominent advantage over the competition with the mfactory helical lsd.

Through the smooth and constant distribution of power to the wheels, the mfactory helical lsd puts the power-to-the-ground and maximises your vehicle's traction. A must for any fwd race car, be it street, strip or track!


- made from 100% pure australian steel, not cheap chinese steel
- precision-machined from high-tensile forged chromoly steel for increased strength and durability
- only the highest quality brighton-best hardware is used
- maintenance-free gears eliminates the need for special fluids & rebuilds associated with plate-type lsds
- lock-free operation ensures no adverse affect to steering response"

read the following threads
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2380842
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2395902&highlight=lsd+mfactory


my personal experience with obx (something i never told anyone)
1. Had to machine the lsd to fit properly (both inside and outside)
2. Changed the main bolts to proper high tensile ones cause the original ones were crap
3. Drive shafts kept getting stuck to had to machine the inside splines on the lsd


Thanks to all for your support - I just want to clarify a few points

First of all, before I start, I would like to mention something, seeing as a point about manufacturing OEM for Ford/Renault was brought up to highlight the quality of the Quaife Unit. There is a reason why Honda of America chose MFactory as their official transmission supplier for all their production-based race cars, and not Quaife/Wavetrac/OBX.

Just a little information on differentials: A "Helical LSD" is not really an "LSD" i.e Limited Slip Differential. In general, the only differentials classed as Limited Slip are Plate/Clutch Type LSD's i.e MFactory Metal Plate, Kaaz/Spoon, ATS, OS Giken, Cusco

A "Helical LSD" is actually based upon the original "Torsen" design, so infact, instead of LSD, it should be called a TSD; Torque Sensing Differential. The term Helical LSD is only used for marketing purposes when referring to a TSD, although a lot of companies that offer/sell Helical LSD's don't even know the difference.

Quaife, being Quaife, decided to reverse-engineer the Torsen design (nothing wrong with that, we done it as well, as did Honda and lots of other companies), called theirs the ATB (Auto Torque Biasing) Differential, then decided to get a completely worthless European Patent for it to "look" original (they didn't tell people it was worthless though), market it as their super duper original lsd and would sue anyone in Europe who would release a similar design (even though it wouldn't stand up in court as their patent was worthless).

Because of this, in Europe, mention the word LSD, and the first thing that comes to mind is Quaife. Never would they have thought that Quaife is actually a copy of someone else. Is it a good quality product? Of course it is. Is it worth the money? Depends on the buyer. A Patek Philippe connoisseur would think a Rolex is cheap, just like how a Rolex connoisseur would think a Grand Seiko is cheap. In other words, you are paying for the Brand Name. There are 5 major brands of TSD's for a Honda: Honda, Quaife, MFactory, Wavetrac, OBX

Which brand TSD is actually better though? They are all good quality (except the OBX. No other words can describe just how bad the quality is), so it's really up to the buyer to decide:

Strength/Durability:
OEM - Cast. Is weaker than the metal it was cut from
Quaife - Machine Cut (Billet). As strong as the metal it was cut from
Wavetrac - Machine Cut (Billet). As strong as the metal it was cut from
MFactory - Forged. Upto 30% tougher than the metal it was cut from
OBX - Cast. Is weaker than the metal it was cut from

Quality (Machining/Tolerance):
OEM - Within oem specs
Quaife - Within oem specs
Wavetrac - Within oem specs (after they fixed their axle issues)
MFactory - Within oem specs
OBX - Toss of a coin. Some are ok (but still quite bad), some are ridiculously bad

Performance:
OEM - Fine for most grocery getters. Might find your diff exploding though after a few aggressive seasons. Cannot handle too high of a torque level
Quaife - No difference in aggressiveness from OEM as same bias ratio and tooth angle. Can handle higher torque. 2010+ models lighter weight (after copying us. Ironic, as pro-Quaife consumers think we are just a cheap copy of them)
Wavetrac - No difference in aggressiveness from OEM as same bias ratio and tooth angle. Patent-pending design that allows it to function under extreme traction loss (i.e one wheel in the air). Effectiveness rather controversial though. Can handle higher torque.
MFactory - Same bias ratio as OEM, but more aggressive tooth angle (i.e more power is transferred to the ground). Can handle higher torque. Is lightweight (due to being Forged + our weight reducing features)
OBX - Is a cheap copy of the Quaife. Toss of a coin. Get a good one, and you may be ok for a while. Otherwise, expensive tranny rebuild.

Value for Money:
OEM - No warranty (unless it is original equipment). Very expensive brand new, relatively affordable 2nd Hand
Quaife - Lifetime warranty (dependant on Distributor policy. Officially, Quaife only offer the warranty to their own customers). As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. Is the most expensive.
Wavetrac - Lifetime warranty. Again, you get what you pay for. Is slightly cheaper than the Quaife
MFactory - Lifetime warranty. Goes against the saying; You actually get more than what you pay for ;). Is the cheapest "Quality" differential, but is certainly not "cheap" (it is "lower cost" because of our manufacturing process i.e Forging, not because of its Quality).
OBX - Lifetime warranty (which is never honored). You get what you pay for, and is a very expensive paperweight if you buy a dud. By far the cheapest.

Brand Recognition:
OEM - Who's never heard of Honda?
Quaife - The most recognisable
Wavetrac - Owned by Autotech, the previous North American distributor for Quaife. Ditched Quaife (and left a lot of warranty claims in the gutter) to pursue their own product line
MFactory - We released our Helical LSD 2 years ago. Since the late 90's, Quaife had 70% share of the North American Honda aftermarket. Now, in 2011, we have 70% share of the North American Honda aftermarket. The rest is shared between Quaife/Wavetrac/OBX
OBX - An eBay Company

In summary? The MFactory is Stronger, Lighter and Machined Better than the Quaife, and this is a proven fact. To top it off, it is also a lower cost. The only reason why you would purchase a Quaife over an MFactory, is if you are after the brand name/bragging rights.

Hope this information will be of use to you :)

[vtecing]

What $40K cars were u beating? 4WDs?

Straight from timeattack.com.au Mine is the white civic. And I never said I was beating them, it was time attack not racing

20 Alex Pope Silver EG Civic
21 Jason Lowe White Peugeot 306
22 Joshua Slapp White Civic
23 Maika TerHorst Silver Fiat 124cc
24 Stephen Hay Purple Excel 14
25 Thomas Ballard White Celica 0
26 David Cramp Blue Z3 M Coupe 13
27 Hochee Lam Black 370Z

[Jccck]

Nice post, e240! Good read.
Tonnes of info in that.. I have an OBX Helical in my F22A Box, tolerances were suprisingly perfect though!
Don't care if it blows, it'll give me an excuse to throw a H22A Box in, instead.

[e240]

OBX can be hit or miss...