H22 Turbo setup.

[ThePacman]

I just thought i'd throw my setup in here, maybe get a few opinions as to what I should do, things I have done right, things i've done wrong, things I should do, shouldn't do, etc.

And if this part of the forum is like the rest, (kinda hopes it isn't) probably get a good flameing along the way.

Anyhow, Some of you may have seen my car, either here, or at a meet.

It's a 94 VtiR Prelude. H22a of corse. And most people think it's far too rice.

But you can make up your own mind.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Done1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Done3.jpg

Now this is what i'm doing....

I have 2 other projects I need to work on. So I just want to get this girl running and relyable on stock internals for the mean time. in the long run, I will be doing the internal work, but that will be after i've made some good progress on other projects. (A 92 JDM Si Vtec prelude and a 89 JDM EF6 CR-X)

Anyhow, Back on topic. the turbo set up goes something like this.....

H22a with stock internals.
This motor has already got 249 XXX km on it, but has always been well
maintained. Last major service was at 235 XXX when it recieved the usual
water pump and seals etc, as well as a Greddy timing and balance shaft belts.
Also, I threw on a set of Skunk2 adjustable cam pullys, and in perperation
for this build, a Koyo 56mm aliuminium radiator.

On a side note, I also recently threw in a stage 4 6 puck copper ceramic
cushion button clutch and matching ductile iron pressure plate.
And a single peice chrome molly 11.5lb fly wheel.

Custom stainless manifold.
I had this built by Richard, at Autosport Engeneering. (Yatala QLD)
I had looked for someone to do the fabrication work for a long time,
and he came highly recomended to me by Matt Stone. (the V8 Super car driver)
Richard had spent the last decade working for Dick Jonson Racing, but beforthat
worked for Ferrari, building their race chassis for Le Mann, and also built turbo
manifolds for Big CC, who specialised in turbo charging Hayabusas.

I wasn't origonally happy with a few of his ideas, but I let him have his head
and i'll save my judgment for when I see the first graphs.

The work included, a custom manifold, stainless with backpurged welds,
port matched runners with no tight bends. (his idea) a 3 inch dump pipe
with seperate chamber for the waste gate. keeping waste gasses away
from the exducer. 2.5 inch hot pipe, and 3 inch cold pipe. also a 2.5 inch intake.

T25/28 turbo.
The exact specs on the turbo are as follows.
Dual ball bearings,
Inducer/Exducer 54/71
Compressor, Trim 56, A/R 0.60
Turbine, Trim 76, A/R 0.86
I don't know that much about turbos, (which is why I started this thread)
So opinions on this will be appriciated. (I am open to changing the turbo later,
but it will need to stay in the T28 family to make swapping easier i believe)

Liquid to air intercooler.
I had decided I wanted to go with a Liquid to air intercooler set up
right from the word go. (just to be different)
Intercooler specs as follows.
2.5 inch I/O, core size 3.5x3.5x9.5 inch. (this seems very small, but i'm
assured that it's plenty big enough for this aplication.
450 cfm, Max pressure 70 PSI.
Bosch electric water pump, 16x12x1 inch PWR heat exchange with electric fan.

Turbosmart 34mm dual port BOV.
Buying the Kompact style, and for the most part, will be running it as a
plumb back.

RC 650cc Injectors. Self explainitory.

Walbro 255 lph fuel pump. Also self expainitory.

Hondata S300 ECU.
Using the Hondata to control boost, fitted and tuned by 101 Motorsport.

Here are some pics,

Motor just before I start fabrication.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/230920101149.jpg

Custom manifold.
The head flange and the merge collector.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2man1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2man3.jpg

And the finished manifold.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tunedman2.jpg

And the entire setup, manifold, dump, hot, cold and intake pipes.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Boostb6.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Boostb5.jpg

At this stage, The plan is to finish plumbing oil and water to the turbo, water for the intercooler, BOV, ECU and tune. then i'm back on the road.

I am wanting advice, anything I have missed. things I have done which I shouldn't have?
Things I should do, but haven't mentioned.....??

[Sexc86]

Is this you steve? Lyle here mate ! Nice to finally see some photos of this that you have told me so much about! Very impressed with the exhaust manifold & water to air intercooler setup you have... like how you can still keep that massive full size radiator too.

Just be carefull with how much heat your dump and exhaust manifold produce (you would be surprised !). Look into some heat lagging / fibreglass wrapping and/or a turbo bag. Doesnt seem like you have much clearance between your radiator top hose and your exhaust manifold, it would be a shame to see it fail from high temps. See how it goes, but if the heat lagging is not enough on your manifold then try changed you top hose to a SS braided line or even solid.

Keep up the good work mate, speak soon.... im sure i am going to need a tow in the next few weeks ;)

[dougie_504]

Love it man. Mani looks fab. How's the CRX?

[ThePacman]

Is this you steve? Lyle here mate ! Nice to finally see some photos of this that you have told me so much about! Very impressed with the exhaust manifold & water to air intercooler setup you have... like how you can still keep that massive full size radiator too.

Just be carefull with how much heat your dump and exhaust manifold produce (you would be surprised !). Look into some heat lagging / fibreglass wrapping and/or a turbo bag. Doesnt seem like you have much clearance between your radiator top hose and your exhaust manifold, it would be a shame to see it fail from high temps. See how it goes, but if the heat lagging is not enough on your manifold then try changed you top hose to a SS braided line or even solid.

Keep up the good work mate, speak soon.... im sure i am going to need a tow in the next few weeks ;)

Hey Guy,
Nar, won't be surprised... LOL i'm expecting it.
Everything (manifold, dump, hot and cold pipes) is getting ceramic coated. (Competition coatings at Archerfield) and i'm also lagging the dump pipe, and throwing a beanie on the turbine housing.
I had little clearance on my top hose. But I went down for a dig through the rad hose section at supercheap, and came up with a better hose. it's about an inch at the thermostat housing, but a good couple of inches everywhere else. I'm still planning to make a little heat sheild though.

Pic showing new clearances. There's actually more clearance than it looks in the pic.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Boostb7.jpg

Lookin foward to seeing your car on the road again. waiting on your call....

(For those who don't know, I drive a tow truck for a living. A truck specially designed for towing high performance cars... (but it can still tow a Nissan...!! LOL))

[ThePacman]

Love it man. Mani looks fab. How's the CRX?

The CR-X is the wifes daily. she crashed it soon after getting it, and I almost decided to scrap it.
But there were no other JDM CR-Xs for sale at the time, so I decided to poor the money in and repair it.

it looks like a Panda at the moment, as it's white from the A pillar foward. and it has an AUDM front end now. but it's running and a blast to drive. (Considering putting a H22 (JDM) in it, if I end up with a spare. Which is if I decide to drop a K24 into the JDM Si Vtec Prelude)

Keep an eye out, you'll see it....

[ThePacman]

Here is a link to the build thread, if anyone has a couple of hours to kill reading.... LOL
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?136743-Pacmans-VTiR-4th-gen.

[ThePacman]

Only a matter of hours from turning the key on this girl....
(as in, a few hours of work to be done. Not litterally in a few hours from now...

Water cooling lines to the turbo are fitted, I have fitted the ECU with a safe basemap.
I have the injectors, just need 'O' rings, and I can fit them,
Bought a TurboSmart dual port BOV yesterday.

Biggest job remaining is to fit the oil feed line, and swap the sump to the one with the oil return.
(I have the new sump with return and a new gasket...)

So, If I had a few odds and ends, and 3-4 hours to spare, i'd be able to turn the key....

I still have to fit radiator fans, lag the exhaust, and set up the pipes for the intercoolers heat exchange.

But it's getting closer to being 'on the road again'.

[ThePacman]

Ok. News on this build is....

I've (for the want of a better word) dissmissed my previous fabricator. (in disgrace)

Seems he assumed he knew the firing order, thought to himself, 'i'l have to choose between equal length runners, or concentric firing order'.

Alas, if he'd bothered to use google search, and found out the correct firing order, he'd have realised, with the corect firing order, it would have made it possible to keep equal length runners.

Also, he couldn't be bothered to try and put the BOV port in anything resembling a decent position.

Anyhow, after spending some time with Simon, from Exotic exhausts in Sumner (Brisbane) all my problems have been solved, with a minimum of fuss, and leaving me with a surprising amount in my pocket.

New look manifold.....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tman1.jpg

I'll post pics of the entire setup, once I install it properly.....

[ThePacman]

Ok, refabsication complete. Ceramic coated the manifold, and re assembled....

Here's the new look....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tfs1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tfs2.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tfs3.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Tfs4.jpg

[curtis265]

jaw dropped...

that looks insane!

[ThePacman]

Had to be a Prelude driver to comment. LOL
It seems to me, most OzHonda members consider the Prelude to be invalid... LOL

[curtis265]

ahh well what can we do. nobody likes h22 turbos

[MRJDM]

nice build,
have you any work to the bottom end, i have read quite abit that the h22 hates boost especially in stock.form rings give way followed by cracked sleeves,.
but a built sleeved engine is more than happy to see 30psi.:D

[u mad?]

nice! dyno sheet?

[ThePacman]

No internal work yet. I don't intend letting her see anything above 10 psi untill I get to do a rebuild.
She will probably just run around on around 6 psi for reliability sake.

I intend doing a Brian Crower 2.5 l stroker kit eventually. But I have 2 other hondas waiting for work also.. LOL

and NO! No dyno sheets as yet. Still around a week from starting her for the first tiime since these mods....

[honda4444]

^^matehas a turbo'dh22a eg its hott....

[Jccck]

Damn that Turbo Manifold is flash!
And there's nothing wrong with H22A turbos! Aslong as you're mindful of the high compression when setting your boost

[Sexc86]

seriously cant get enough of your cooling setup mate!

[ThePacman]

Thanks guys. The manifold was hell to get right, but I finaly got there...

Liquid to air intercoolers are very efficant. And are becoming more and more popular.

I can't wait to get this thing finally set up properly, and running....

About 6 wees now, and i'll have everything finished to the standard I want. (ie, perfect)

The AUDM H22a has a 10.6/1 cr. With a very tidy tune, i'll be able to run up to 10psi safely.

But i'll only bump it up that high for special occasions. Usually, i'll sit it on about 6lb for relyability sake...

[Jccck]

Thanks guys. The manifold was hell to get right, but I finaly got there...

Liquid to air intercoolers are very efficant. And are becoming more and more popular.

I can't wait to get this thing finally set up properly, and running....

About 6 wees now, and i'll have everything finished to the standard I want. (ie, perfect)

The AUDM H22a has a 10.6/1 cr. With a very tidy tune, i'll be able to run up to 10psi safely.

But i'll only bump it up that high for special occasions. Usually, i'll sit it on about 6lb for relyability sake...

Water to Air Intercooler would've made my build so much easier.. But it's too late now!
Special occasions? Like smoking Commodores at the lights.. Haha.

[ThePacman]

Special occasions? Like smoking Commodores at the lights.. Haha.

I'm kinda hopeing that smoking commodores will be an every day happening! LOL

[Jccck]

I'm kinda hopeing that smoking commodores will be an every day happening! LOL

I don't doubt it.. Haha.
My Built & Boosted CB7 was created for many reasons.. Smoking Commodores happens to be quite high on the list.

[ThePacman]

We're not too different from boguns.
They live to own Commodores and smoke.
We Honda owners live to OWN, and smoke Commodores! LOL

[ThePacman]

It runs.
Still a bit to do before blue plates and rego.
But I've taken it for it's first test run on the base map.
And it is already every thing I'd hoped for....

[Bludger]

eagerly awaiting more information.

[ThePacman]

As I said mate, it's running.
I still have to fit and plumb the heat exchange for the intercooler, the heat shield and thermo fans for the radiator and get it tuned.
But it is at least running.
Should have blue plates and rego around the end of the month.

I may post a quick video of a test run this arvo.

It's making boost. Brakes traction in third gear at 4000rpm with a stab at the throttle.

But till all the other things are finished and it's tuned, it's not going any more than 200 meters from home. Not going to maker full boost (only 10lb anyhow) and not going into V tec.

[Bludger]

:)

nice.

in4 post tune results.

[u mad?]

yeah wanna see some numbers along with some vids of some pulls!

[ThePacman]

Here are the promised vid clips.....

Apologies about the size of the clips....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHBUVfAVr-Q&feature=channel

[Bludger]

salivating.

srs

well done.

now in4resultsoftune.

waiting for 60 - 200km/h run.

lol

[ThePacman]

And the other one.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hIdDSEgLJ0&feature=channel

[Bludger]

I wet my pants over bb4's while I was a teenager.

srs.

[curtis265]

Looking good pacman!


I wet my pants over bb4's while I was a teenager.

srs.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar3152_44.gif

that's preeety gross

[ThePacman]

I need to get it blue plated and rego'd next, then tuned.
Then I'll be up for a night at Willowbank, and a few sessions at Lakeside.
But everything takes time. Been years getting it this far...

[ThePacman]

Ok, here is my answer to the problem of the rad hose being too close to the manifold....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hhose.jpg

It's supposed to be able to stand constant direct temps of up to 500c and even able to handle having molten metal of up to 1350c splashed on it....

This is a sleeve which will fit neatly over the existing rad hose...

Should fix my problem.....

[u mad?]

sweet! keen for 60-200 cluster vid also lol

[ThePacman]

sweet! keen for 60-200 cluster vid also lol

Only that 4th gens are too cool for a cluster, we have the star trek dash, remember....!! LOL

[curtis265]

not cool enough for a cluster

[Bludger]

bb4 > bb6

[ThePacman]

bb4 > bb6

;)



True...

[Sexc86]

I love the star trek dash ! .... just be carefull driving it on basemap mate!

[ThePacman]

I love the star trek dash ! .... just be carefull driving it on basemap mate!

Yeah, I haven't been driving it as such. Just once for the vid.

Ordered the Demon chip emulator today.

Once I have that in, I can give it a reasonable street tune.

[ThePacman]

Ok, some progress today...
Got the heat exchange and water pump for the intercooler set up.....

Pic time.....!

First, this is the heat exchange. With the front bar removed....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2331.jpg

Difficulty is, trying to get the heat exchange behind the front bar. Thats where the power steering cooler lives...
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2432.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2433.jpg

So I moved the power steering cooler further back....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2434.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2435.jpg

And finally it's in..... In the end I actually had to put the water pump on the opposite side of the heart exchange.
But you get the idea.....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2436.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2437.jpg

And the look under the bonnet. (note, the new radiator cap beside the intercooler.)
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2438.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2439.jpg

And here is the final look of the top radiator house with the heat protection it needed....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Radlag1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Radlag2.jpg

You may notice I swapped the lower radiator hose, for the blue gates racing house I had waiting......

All in all, not a bad day's progress.....

Should be blue plated, rwc'd and registered inside a week....

[ThePacman]

All booked in for RWC and Blue plates tomorrow...
Should be all legal and rego'd by the weekend....

[Sexc86]

Looking good Steve, see ya tomorro mate !

[ThePacman]

Looking good Steve, see ya tomorro mate !

Thanks for coming along for a look mate......

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Mod.jpg

[curtis265]

congrats!

[ThePacman]

Registered........!!

[curtis265]

congrats!!

[ThePacman]

Ta dude......

[Bludger]

60 - 250 cluster vids.

[ThePacman]

60 - 250 cluster vids.

Well, I think my final drive puts my top gear red line @ around 225-230.
And I'm not sure what tracks would let me reach that speed.

And we all know you'd have to be a total tossa to consider trying that on a public road......

[Bludger]

:p

looking forward to vid of any sort:)

[ThePacman]

Well, as usual, progress was a little slower than I'd hoped.....
I got the rad heat shield and thermo fans on...but I haven't hooked up the relay to switch them on and off yet.
I also didn't get the demon chip in, or the wide band O2 sensor in....

But I did get the fans in, and drive the car carefully to get it up to operating temp, and it all works fine....

Anyhow, pic time....
Pull the rad out.... Thats the easy part....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf2.jpg

Here is the heat shield, and my plans for it....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf3.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf4.jpg

Bolt thorough and fix the bolts with nuts from the back.
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf5.jpg
With nylon luck nuts to hold the fans......
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf6.jpg
Bolt them down, nice and tight......
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf7.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf8.jpg
And a piece of rubber seal along the top an bottom to reduce rubbing, vibration and wear....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf9.jpg
And all finished, ready to go back in.......
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf10.jpg

I didn't get pics of me putting the rad back in.
By that time I was way too frustrated to take pics... LOL (Not to mention the things I accused it of having done to my mother....!)

But it is back in, and everything works, and it stays cool while running,

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf11.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Hsf12.jpg
Though, the top radiator tank does seem to get quite hot, but the engine temp is good while running....

[Bludger]

that's awesome fan setup mate.

I would be frustrated working on that too, so tight.

[dougie_504]

How the F did you get that in there? Lol

Fkn boss dude

[ThePacman]

Getting it in? Man, that was problematic.....
Getting the bottom radiator hose on and right took me over an hour....
I'm just glad it's in now, and it ask seem worth while, because the operating temp is perfect....

[curtis265]

bit tight the first time ey?


that's a bloody insane effort guy....!

[getm_up]

how much all up did it cost you if you dont mind answering

[ThePacman]

how much all up did it cost you if you dont mind answering

Hmmmmm...
Tough question.
It depends on what you mean by "all up!"...

This phase, the actual bolting on of the turbo cost me around $8k.
A lot of people will say thats way too much for what I have, and I tend to agree.
But I way over spent on the manifold (I ended up with some loose change out of $5k.)
But then again, the manifold is fantastic in my opinion, and I couldn't ask for better.

But this build started way way before this phase.
Back st the last major service. When I decided to use a greddy timing belt, instead of an OEM. And I put the Koyo radiator in, instead of leaving the stock one.
That major service cost me about $2.5k. Instead of $600-$700. In preparation for all this.

And in turn, all this is just in preparation for the forged internal build, which will finally see the boost gauge climb past 10psi.....

And of corse, to complicate the entire question even further.
Just in case the wife ever reads this.

It all cost me nothing mate, I put it all together with chicken wire and paper mashay.....!

[ThePacman]

The Moates Demon chip is installed now.
I have fitted the USB plug into the kick panel on the passenger side.
I can plug my lap top int this point to tune the car.
I haven't been able to check the data logging function yet, but there is no reason that this isn't working properly also.

I'll post upa couple of pics of this later today....

If it want for the lack of the wide band O2 sensor, it would be today ready to tune....

[ThePacman]

Pics of where I mounted the PC connection.
As you can see, its an easy to reach USB jack.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Jack1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Jack2.jpg

[curtis265]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4350772539_55ff96415a_o.jpg

[Scholzey]

makes you wish you could weld doesn't it lol

would save so much money! i wish i could weld... :P

[Bludger]

lol

DIY weld

blow up manifold

http://www.kenscheepers.com/Manifold%20Blow-Up%20%20Bad.jpg

[Scholzey]

And we all know you'd have to be a total tossa to consider trying that on a public road......

lol hmmm

[Scholzey]

Seems he assumed he knew the firing order, thought to himself, 'i'l have to choose between equal length runners, or concentric firing order'.

Alas, if he'd bothered to use google search, and found out the correct firing order, he'd have realised, with the corect firing order, it would have made it possible to keep equal length runners.

is your exhaust manifold twin scroll? dont understand why firing order would matter if its 4 into 1..

oh sorry, just looking through your thread for the first time...

[ThePacman]

is your exhaust manifold twin scroll? dont understand why firing order would matter if its 4 into 1..

oh sorry, just looking through your thread for the first time...

The turbo isn't twin scroll, but the concentric firing order is one of those theories that some say it makes a big difference, some day it doesn't help st all.

Anyhow, I see merit in the theory. The concentric firing order is supposed to help spool the turbo by having equal and regular pressure waves entering the back of the turbo exducer...... (it makes sence to me, and seems to work.....)

[Sexc86]

:p looking forward to vid of any sort:)

Its impressively responsive !


how much all up did it cost you if you dont mind answering

A tru gentleman never asks that question.


Great job you done on that radiator shroud steve, very impressed !!

[ThePacman]

^^^ thanks mate, (Lyle is the only one on Oz Honda who has seen this car in a long time) can't wait till it's tuned now.

Fuel pump went in today, Wide band O2 sensor hopefully tomorrow.
So a tune isn't really that far away....!

[Scholzey]

hey i read you can turn the tyres at 4000rpm in 3rd as the tune stands..

do you have an lsd? if you do, thats insane!

how do you plan on tuning? taking to a dyno? if not, do you have a knock sensor?

ive always thought the best way for a final tune is to get your a/f's good then measure g forces in a gear that grips and adjust ignition for best g forces.

that way you aren't relying on dyno numbers, but real world acceleration :P

obviously you would need a knock sensor to do safely.

[ThePacman]

Dyno tune for my final tune....
Yes, I have a knock sensor, and an LSD.....

Once I have the O2 sensor in properly, I'll be able to tune straight from the drivers seat.
I have a very capable friend who is going to street tune with me, so that whoever does the final tune will just have to neaten things up and do some fine tuning.....

[TODA AU]

Tip of the hat to you Mr Pacman,
Though I'm certainly not a turbo H22 fan,
This has to be one of the best executed, thought out & thorough turbo setups I've seen in a long while.
Nice.... very nice.... :thumbsup:

[Sexc86]

What knock detection you running mate? I think the point that mic is makeing, is do you have knock detection/protection? Either a stand alone controller or a ecu feature that removes timing from your tune whenever you knock sensor sees detonation. Its good insurance and for sure somthing i am also looking into !

[ThePacman]

Tip of the hat to you Mr Pacman,
Though I'm certainly not a turbo H22 fan,
This has to be one of the best executed, thought out & thorough turbo setups I've seen in a long while.
Nice.... very nice.... :thumbsup:

Thanks mate, appreciate your opinion....

[ThePacman]

What knock detection you running mate? I think the point that mic is makeing, is do you have knock detection/protection? Either a stand alone controller or a ecu feature that removes timing from your tune whenever you knock sensor sees detonation. Its good insurance and for sure somthing i am also looking into !

Ahhhhh.....!
I see, I don't have anything l "proactive" regarding knock sencing as yet. But thats a good point. Worth considering.

My current setup is basically just for safe tuning and our driver warning..

As always, I got me some homework to do.

Then again, it'd all get a bit boring if I didn't.......!

[Scholzey]

i was refering to a knock sensor that you can hook up to your headphones to listen to while road tuning so you know whats going on :)

but yea, a safeguard after your done tuning is always good just incase you get some bad petrol or something like that, then your hard earned money doesnt have to leave you again.

also if you get one that works really well, then you can tune agressively, or not need to give yourself that safety buffer that you normally would. but then again, do you want to rely on something so much? lol

[ThePacman]

Well no! I don't have that kind of knock sensor.
When we street tune, it will mainly be just to get it SAFE, not so much trying to get every killer wasp out of it.
I'm going to leave the performance tune for someone with all the toys.

Speaking of which, I was kinda confused the other day when, while at a performance shop, they were suggesting not to permanently install the innovate motorsport LC1 wide band O2 sensor.

I'm in the middle of replacing my OEM O2 sensor with the LS1. This just seemed to be the right thing to do.

But they were saying to fit it only to tune, then remove it...?

I'm halfway through fitting it. (I know it's not a big job, but I work 80 hours a week, so free time is rare)

Opinions please....?

[Scholzey]

wideband is not needed.

the tuner will have there own wideband on the dyno and tune from that. most of the time they will set the computer up so it doesn't make changes to the tune through the o2 sensor. so your car will not need one at all. closed loop or open loop.

i like to have a wideband to datalog for my own interests sake, or to watch on the road if something is feeling funny. but its only for my own curiosity.

when they said to have it for tuning then take it out, its just to save the sensor so it doesn't wear out. they have a lifespan thats a lot shorter then the factory narrowband.. but i leave mine in all the time, I'm not too worried if i have to change the sensor.. what is it.. like $100 or something for mine..

oh hang on. in hondata there is a lean protection you can use that will cut the engine if the afr's get to lean for a certain boost level. so you can hook your wideband up to that :P

[ThePacman]

So your exactly the same as me. Us don't need it, just WANT it.
Same as the rest of the dam cars. We don't NEED them. Just WANT them.

[Scholzey]

one thing i did with mine was,

got a tune from a guy from the usa.

i would data log a bunch of runs down the highway at different boost levels and he would make adjustments then i would go out again after i upload the changes then send him another datalog.

worked out well and couldnt have been done without a wideband :)

[ThePacman]

Ya see, that kinda functionality makes a WB/O2 totally necessary imo...

A street tune isn't done in a day, maybe not even a week.
It can, perhaps even should take months....

And out erl give the performance tune guy a much better foundation to work from...

All wroth while if you ask me. And st what real cost. Maybe a new O2 now and then (if ever)

Really??

Anyhow, my LC1 is fitted now. Start street tuning tomorrow....

Life is good.....!

[Sexc86]

Nice Steve ... Owe me a drive mate ! And yes I have my wide band permenantly installed. I datalogg it to the ecu but run in open loop so the ecu doesn't reference to the af values. I like to obtain as much info from my engine as possibly. Also as mic explained earlier it's handy doing datalogg recording and sending to other tuners that may be in a different country or state.. And that's where the af values come in really handy !

Good luck mate I'm sure you will have a big smile on your face when you have your tune finished

[ThePacman]

Ok,.life want meant to be easy.

The wide band sensor is damaged, so I need a new one. Hmmmmmm...

And the ecu doesn't wasn't to data log.

I can modify the tune all I want. But without being able to data log, thats all but useless....

This is a major set back. And I'm not sure what I'm going to do as yet.....

But I'll come up with something.... May just be the push towards Hondata that I needed....

[Scholzey]

just watch the laptop as you get someone else to drive. :)

[Sexc86]

Ok,.life want meant to be easy.

The wide band sensor is damaged, so I need a new one. Hmmmmmm...

And the ecu doesn't wasn't to data log.

I can modify the tune all I want. But without being able to data log, thats all but useless....

This is a major set back. And I'm not sure what I'm going to do as yet.....

But I'll come up with something.... May just be the push towards Hondata that I needed....



Yeh mate the innovate probes are not the best and prone to easy failure. Just make sure you replace it with a better unit... maybe a plx o2 probe

[blwncr]

Yeh mate the innovate probes are not the best and prone to easy failure. Just make sure you replace it with a better unit... maybe a plx o2 probe

Do you have any back-up for your quote please? My innovate is/has worked floorless FYI

[Sexc86]

Just google mate and you will see countless stories & reviews of the innovate lc-1 being prone to failure usually due to high heat.... I too also have a innovate lc-1

[ThePacman]

The innovate LC1 has a Bosch probe.
They are prone to failure as they were designed to be installed further down the exhaust than most people put them.
Mine is just near the rear K frame, so mine should last just fine...
Another common reason for failure, is having the engine running without the sensor bring powered. So making sure the LC1 on the right circuit is also important....

[MRJDM]

i was running a inovative lc-1 on my jet ski. Had motec and quite a few other mods. and the fix for the bosch bung failure was to install a heat bung. ( looked like a spacer i guess) and this helped.with heat and also due to the ski running a wet exhaust. it did the trick i had it in the ski for two season without failure

[ThePacman]

Yeah, I'd imagine the place you had it installed in the ski wouldn't get much of an sure flow past out around it... So the "bung" would be a good idea in that application.
(I used to build boats, and love all kind of water craft.)

I doubt I'll need the "bung" in mine. It's fired in a downturn location (right b4 the cat) and it gets plenty of sure flow.
Even after being run, I can assure you, that part of the exhaust will be well below the 800degree operating temp of the sensor.....

[ThePacman]

Well, a mate and I did our best to give the car a street tune over the weekend, but we never got any real progress happening.
In fact, I went backwards....

I'm so used to coming back after a weekend saying "progress was slower than expected, but I'm happy with what I got done!"

But not this time I'm afraid.

The wide band O2 sensor failed. Probably my fault.
The power connection was dodgy, and apparently one of the worst things you can do is run your motor without power to the sensor.

Also, the ECU refused to data log.

I'm pulling the ECU this week to go over it and check that everything is connected properly.

And I've ordered a new O2 sensor from the states...

This is a setback, I'll get there though.....

[ThePacman]

Well, no prizes for guessing who caved in....!

Today I put down a deposit on a P72 OBD1 ECU with a Hondata S300...

[ThePacman]

New wide band O2 sensor arrived today....

I'll have it in by the weekend....

Not sure if I'll be able to get the S300 by next weekend. But I'm hopefull.

[ThePacman]

Hondata in possession.....

[ThePacman]

Hondata S300 fitted, accepting code, running and data logging.....

I'm a happy boy.....

[dougie_504]

badass bro

[.k.]

congrats :p sorry about the mixup with the ecu, but im glad its all worked out :D

[ThePacman]

congrats :p sorry about the mixup with the ecu, but im glad its all worked out :D

No probs mate, won't have control of my IABs , and I'll have a little more work ahead of me when it comes to setting up boost by gear, but it's not impossible.

Still happier with this setup than I was with the Demon etc.

Can't wait to get her tuned now....!

[ThePacman]

Well, I got my hands on a reasonable base map.
It seems to be ruining fine, though it hunts idle quite badly. But then it will suddenly clean up and run perfect...

It's a little rich in general, but at lest it's safe for now.

[89lude]

byp boys coming to brissy to do some tunning get them to tune it

[Sexc86]

No probs mate, won't have control of my ITBs , and I'll have a little more work ahead of me when it comes to setting up boost by gear, but it's not impossible.

Still happier with this setup than I was with the Demon etc.

Can't wait to get her tuned now....!


i never knew you had itbs mate?

[Vvvtec]

Did you mean IAB?

[ThePacman]

Did you mean IAB?

YES.... Yes I did...... (nOOb moment..... )

TypeO... post fixed..

[Vvvtec]

haha :p

[ThePacman]

A few adjustments to my tune today. Much happier now.
I can drive ruthie that black cloud following me.... LOL

[Vvvtec]

Aaaaaaaand?

How's she go!

[ThePacman]

Runs much better. Hoping to be able to get it dyno tuned next week.....!

[ThePacman]

I am considering getting her tuned ASAP.....

Options are....

101 Motorsport.....
Cost, $770. but they won't be able to fit me in till 4-6 weeks time....

High Power Racing.....
Cost, $660. They can fit me in next Thursday. This is the option which is most convenient for me....

999 Automotive.....
Cost, $880. But will do it for me for $660, (thats 4 hours with the tuner and dyno). They can fit me in TOMORROW or SATURDAY.
But I honestly won't have the money till next thursday...

Decisions decisions.....

[Sexc86]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ldk70o.jpg

Enjoy the wild turkey mate

[89lude]

So heard hi power tuned must be hell fun to drive

[ThePacman]

I did, and will mate.

Not being much of a drinker, a 4 pack lasts me an entire weekend though. LOL

Well, the hondata its tuned, it has a nice safe tune which delivers a very usable 214.6fwhp.

Not huge numbers I know. But I'm very happy with it.

Keeping in mind that at this stage the motor has completely stock internals, with almost 250 000km on the clock.

It's making full boost (only 10lb mind you) before 3000rpm and it's within about 20hp of full power by 5000-5500rpm. Holding it through to about 7000rpm before doing off.

The biggest problem I have now is my old 2.5 inch exhaust. It is just suffocating the motor...

But for now, I'm very happy, and plan on just enjoying driving the car a while...

Credit and thanks where it's due.....

I'd like to thank Ivan and the guys down at high Power Racing. (Slacks creek Brisbane)
For looking after me with the tune.

He worked with me on my difficult schedule, and kept my engine safe for me.

Thanks guys....!!

[ThePacman]

So heard hi power tuned must be hell fun to drive

Yes mate, it is...
I've only driven it for about 20 minutes so far, but I plan on fixing that this weekend.

But yes, it's awesome fun. Power delivery is early, with a good wide band.

It is what I'd hoped for. It's not a ridiculous bitch to drive, still very comfortable.

It's exactly how I wanted it....

(p.s. Where did you heart it was tuned at HPR...? LOL)

[ThePacman]

Dyno sheets time.....
Graph 1 shows power of course, but also air/fuel.... I know it's quite rich. But rich is safe....
And the power curve is quite good in my opinion, making over 200hp by 5000rpm, and holding that till after 7000...
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Dynohp1.jpg

This shows power and torque....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Dynohp2.jpg

And this one shows power with boost.... Building 5lb by 3000rpm (very early) and full boost (10lb) by 4000rpm. I put this down to the liquid to air intercooler...
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Dynohp3.jpg

All in all, I'm happy. But I think I've mentioned that already....

[DLO01]

Well done mate.

[Jccck]

Is your H22A still of standard compression?
I would have expected a heap more power from 10 PSI taking into account compression and that wild turbo manifold.
My Accord has the same amount of power when on low boost setting (9 PSI) at 9.1:1 (standard f22a) compression.. With only a log manifold.
Just seems strange, is all.

[Sexc86]

Maybe next mod would be a H2B conversion steve?

[ThePacman]

I'm going to have to get used to it a while first, before I make any decisions about what comes next....

well, thats not exactly true. Next is a larger turbo (28/76)) and a better exhaust.

The biggest reason my power curve didn't continue climbing from the 200 ish fwhp at 5000ish rpm was my old n/a 2.5 inch exhaust, complete with STOCK cat....

The turbo wanted to keep going, but the small exhaust was suffocating the motor.

Ivan said that if I got a new 3 inch exhaust, and a big cat, I could easily see another 20 or 30 fwhp....

It has been tempting me, but the car is great for now.....

[mooshie]

your turbo is too small...

in your first post you said you didnt want to change the T28 rear housing bolt pattern so the biggest you could go is a GT3071R in the T28 housing.

i upgraded to this turbo from a GT2860RS (.64 rear) and picked up 22kwatw at 8PSI with no other changes although did lose up to 9kw between 3000-4000rpm running 2.5inch exhaust from the turbo, log manifold and makes 166kwatw now.

better off getting a new flange on there and go up to the T3 style turbos i reckon.

[ThePacman]

I'm limited with space with my manifold. Which I'm not willing to ditch.

But a 28/76 wil fit in fine, couple that with a 3 inch exhaust, and I'll make more power. But I'm not willing to loose my mid range.

Remember, this is a driver. I drive this car. It's smooth, fun and reliable as it is.... And for now, I'm loving it....

[ThePacman]

Thats "MR" H22 to you......!

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Plates1.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Plates2.jpg

[connorling]

Got a nice engine bay, but I am not a big fan of the exterior. But credit for the engine works.... Well done

[Scholzey]

so sneaky with the water to air :thumbsup:

[dougie_504]

Nice work man, I love it. Looks great and has the balls to walk the walk too.

Pics of CRX!?!??!

[lookingforboost]

dont i repeat DO NOT put a 2876 on it you will make no more power Garrented ...!!! with more lag its a dog turbo terrible design T25 flange and small turbo coupled with a cropped down old GT30 design compressor wheel it is a special application turbo and not designed for power applications...... i am telling you so you dont make a terrible decision!!!

Turbo choice it staying the same T25 foot print should be as metioned a GT3071R or the new Garrett GTX3071 you can use the internal gate with both of these and should be what you are looking for in the larger turbine wheel as you can flow a lot more and will as you have with your exhaust choke it with the smaller .64 rear

once agian 2876 = EPIC FAIL .... if your tuner wants to put this turbo on pack up and find another tuner as fast as you can!

[ThePacman]

Thanks guy, I appreciate that my style doesn't apeal to everyone.
But I think it's a good example of what it is.

It's funny though, the"ricer" that it is, the less performance people expect out to have.

It's like, hiding right out in the open. In it's own way, it's still a sleeper....

As for the CRX...

I'm starting work on it soon. I'm doing it JDM style.
I have a body kit for it, but it is the wifes daily. And she would destroy a body kit in a week.
I have a B16 lined up for it. Should be an awesome little ride.

The wife credited it shortly after I got it on the road for her.
But I fixed it up. It has a white AUDM front end on it atm.
So it's ben nick named "The Panda...!"

I'll find a pic of it....

[ThePacman]

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/081120101230.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/081120101228.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/081120101233.jpg

[ThePacman]

dont i repeat DO NOT put a 2876 on it you will make no more power Garrented ...!!! with more lag its a dog turbo terrible design T25 flange and small turbo coupled with a cropped down old GT30 design compressor wheel it is a special application turbo and not designed for power applications...... i am telling you so you dont make a terrible decision!!!

Turbo choice it staying the same T25 foot print should be as metioned a GT3071R or the new Garrett GTX3071 you can use the internal gate with both of these and should be what you are looking for in the larger turbine wheel as you can flow a lot more and will as you have with your exhaust choke it with the smaller .64 rear

once agian 2876 = EPIC FAIL .... if your tuner wants to put this turbo on pack up and find another tuner as fast as you can!

Thanks for the input. Honestly, so far, I'm happy with my setup.
If I change snails at all, I'll give that consideration...

[ThePacman]

Ok. So I'm still having a niggling problem with a miss.

The car runs perfectly at start up, (other than idling a little high. 2000rpm)
And runs fine once it's at operating temp. But after you've been driving fir about 30-40 min, it starts to develop a miss.

It's always at around the same spot in the rev range. (between 4500 and 5000 rpm) and only under load (more than about 60% throttle)

The car drives fine, and if you go easy on the throttle till your past 5500rpm, you can go WOT without a problem. But who wants to do that....?

It definatly feels like an ignition miss, and in fact, I regapped my spark plugs down to .75mm. And it made considerable difference.
It definatly cleaned it up some what. But it didn't quite fix it all together.

So, I'm waiting on Honda, to deliver me a brand new genuine dizzy cap, and rotor button. And I bought an MSD SS Blaster coil.
I'm hopeing that this will fix the problem, whilst allowing me to regap my plugs back to around 1.2mm.

I just hope this is the issue.....

[lookingforboost]

gap plugs to .8 all the time

[lookingforboost]

why is the idle set so high as well? it should idle fine at stock RPM set point?

[MRJDM]

Also check your icm its common for the miss to happen once car is warm to develop a miss as these fail quite often

[defect]

Maybe next mod would be a H2B conversion steve?

dont think B series box fits into a prelude chassis, the amount of work that would be required, custom link, mounts. The set up doesnt exist for a reason.

he's problem is the turbo is way too small for the motor, turbo honda's like big rear housings.

he's gears isn't the problem either, longer gears is suppose to be better for turbo, and even if he wanted shorter gears, a mFactory 4.6 FD would be better option than your opinion.

[ThePacman]

dont think B series box fits into a prelude chassis, the amount of work that would be required, custom link, mounts. The set up doesnt exist for a reason.

he's problem is the turbo is way too small for the motor, turbo honda's like big rear housings.

he's gears isn't the problem either, longer gears is suppose to be better for turbo, and even if he wanted shorter gears, a mFactory 4.6 FD would be better option than your opinion.

Yeah, No need for a diferent box. the stock ratios are fine for a turbo motor.
I don't thing the turbine is too small for the H22. notconsidering i'm not chasing over 200kw at any stage. it's a t28 with an A/R of .86. just gotta fix the exhaust..

[ThePacman]

Also check your icm its common for the miss to happen once car is warm to develop a miss as these fail quite often

nOOb time for me.... icm....??

[mooshie]

Ignition Control Module

http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1e/bl446e.htm

[ThePacman]

Entire new dizzy went in today..... Problem still exists....!

[Scholzey]

its not lean is it?

do you have the o2 sensor hooked up??

[ThePacman]

No, it's not lean. Not according to the sure fuel gauge, or the datalog...

Whats more, it's done it again. Started it saturday, it started for 1 second, then cut out. Now won't start again.

I'm assuming that it's done the ignition module again.

Kinda frustrated....!

[ThePacman]

I know it has nothing to do with the turbo setup.
But here is todays effort....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Forz1.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Forz2.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Forz3.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Forz4.jpg

[ThePacman]

Exhaust.....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Exh1.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Exh2.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Exh3.jpghttp://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Exh4.jpg

This pic shows the new mufflers. they still had the the reducers in at this point. Which I have since taken out, for audable orgasms...
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Exh5.jpg

Big "THANKS A HEAP" to Simon from Exhotic Exhausts. First class service and first class work....
I'm very impressed...... Very HAPPY.....!!!!

Also, I'm about to throw a GT28r on instead of the 28/25...

Here is a pic of the compressors for comparison....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/2turbos.jpg

This is also a garrett ball bearing turbo as most will already know. so this should go in well....

[Sexc86]

lookin good steve, i see your enjoying holidays

[ThePacman]

Dramas Dramas Dramas.
End result is, I've bought a new turbo. I'll be fitting it tomorrow.
It's a Garrett GT28r with a .86 rear housing.
As pictured.....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/gt2871r.jpg

Already picked up.....!

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Gt2871m.jpg

[CRXDEL501]

Sweet !

Love the exhaust

I got mine done there ! I love Simons stainless steel work

The welds were awesome !

[Vvvtec]

how much was that exhaust? gonna need a 3" setup pretty soon lol

[CRXDEL501]

how much was that exhaust? gonna need a 3" setup pretty soon lol

I think mine was like 1000 or 1100. Full stainless 2.5"

[ThePacman]

It really depends on what you want, they do awesome custom work, go get a quote....

[ThePacman]

Ok, things just keep getting tighter and tighter in there......
This turbo only just fits, clearance on the mounting for the damper I'm using for the front mount is only a couple of mm, with only a mm or 2 clearance from the manifold runner. I couldn't possably fit a bigger turbo on this setup, if I tried.....

Here is a pic of the engine mount delete..... I had to delete the front mount to fit the bigger turbo in, so I replaced the mount with an NRG engine damper.....

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Emdel.jpg

[Irish R]

Good thinking there,first time i have seen a torque damper replace a mount you sure it is up to the job?

[Sexc86]

looking good steve! shes gonna rip with that new turbo. Looks like a bitch for clearance down there !

[ThePacman]

I'm fairly sure the damper will be fine.
I've put the softest available bushes in it, to offer the softest front action..

Yeah Lyle, it's tight in there now. I've got litterally less than 2 or 3mm clearance all around the compressor on all edges...

It's ridiculously tight, but fits perfectly.....

[ThePacman]

All done, all working, all good.
Just need a tune now after these latest upgrades.

Pics.....
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Gt28711.jpg
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/007Pacman/Gt28712.jpg

The more observant amongst us will realise I have a mild steel hot pipe at the moment.
This is just a working template for the moment. I'll pop into Exotic exhausts during the week and get a stainless one made...

[dougie_504]

I'm surprised that radiator hose works at all. Looks so kinked with the heat wrap stuff around it but it's probably fine I'm sure...

[ThePacman]

Thats a cover over the rad hose, the rad hose is fine inside there, wouldn't have even thought about turning the key if I wasn't 100% certain.....

[Sexc86]

i think you should tuck your throttle cable steve !

[ThePacman]

i think you should tuck your throttle cable steve !

What I think your looking at there dude is my cruise control....

[Jccck]

What I think your looking at there dude is my cruise control....

My CB7 had an identical cruise control/wire position to your 'Lude.
And since boosting, i no longer had room to keep it where it was.

So i moved it up in the hole between the IM/Passenger Side Strut Tower/Fuel Filter.
Fits nicely, cable can be left the same length and follows the same path as the Throttle Cable (across the valve cover)
I had to whip up a neat little bracket that (In my case, atleast) welded to one of the Strut Brace brackets.. EZ!

Also had to extend a few vacuum lines and the wiring.. But it looks much neater in it's new location.
Perhaps something to think about if you've got some free time haha?

[ThePacman]

My CB7 had an identical cruise control/wire position to your 'Lude.
And since boosting, i no longer had room to keep it where it was.

So i moved it up in the hole between the IM/Passenger Side Strut Tower/Fuel Filter.
Fits nicely, cable can be left the same length and follows the same path as the Throttle Cable (across the valve cover)
I had to whip up a neat little bracket that (In my case, atleast) welded to one of the Strut Brace brackets.. EZ!

Also had to extend a few vacuum lines and the wiring.. But it looks much neater in it's new location.
Perhaps something to think about if you've got some free time haha?

Free time. LMAO....
I work a minumum 60 hour wel guy. Averaged 72 hours a week, every wel for last financial year...

I'm lucky to to have got it this far.... LOL

[ThePacman]

Well, I'm now having boost creep issues, now that I have a bigger turbo.
AS soon as she hits Vtec, if I'm at WOT, the boost just soars through 14psi in seconds.
Even with the waste gate open, the boost keeps rising.
At the moment, with the recent modifications, I currently have no seperation inside the dump pipe between the backside of the exducer fan, and the outside of the waste gate. So I'm hoping a slight redesign of the dump pipe will fix this problem. By creating a larger seperation between the dump and waste gate, I hope to reduce the amount of exhaust gas pressure at the back of the waste gate. Which "should" fix the problem. Then perhaps I can get back to tuning it....

[DLO01]

Have you got it re-tunned with the new larger turbo, or running on old tune still?

[ThePacman]

Still running on old tune.
Can't even try to retune, if the boost creep issue isn't fixed....
Hits vtec, boost goes through 14psi....

[Jccck]

Still running on old tune.
Can't even try to retune, if the boost creep issue isn't fixed....
Hits vtec, boost goes through 14psi....

What Wastegate are you using?
I had a quick read of the initial post and couldn't see it written anywhere.

But i do agree with you that the position the wastegate pipe re-enters the downpipe is very critical.
The longer the better!
I am using a Turbonetics Evolution Wastegate on my setup.
Wastegate pipe re-enters the downpipe after approx 300mm (As long as we could go without hitting the sump/block hahaha)
No boost creep whatsoever.

[ThePacman]

What Wastegate are you using?
I had a quick read of the initial post and couldn't see it written anywhere.

But i do agree with you that the position the wastegate pipe re-enters the downpipe is very critical.
The longer the better!
I am using a Turbonetics Evolution Wastegate on my setup.
Wastegate pipe re-enters the downpipe after approx 300mm (As long as we could go without hitting the sump/block hahaha)
No boost creep whatsoever.

I have an internal wastgate. Using a KLS adjustable actuator.
At this point the wastgate is not seperate.
It had a seperation before, but I lost it with the turbo upgrade....

[Jccck]

I have an internal wastgate. Using a KLS adjustable actuator.
At this point the wastgate is not seperate.
It had a seperation before, but I lost it with the turbo upgrade....

Ouch, well hopefully you can 'delete' that internal wastegate, and put the external back on again!
Seems odd that the internal wastegate of said upgraded turbo, cannot keep the boost in check.

[ThePacman]

Ouch, well hopefully you can 'delete' that internal wastegate, and put the external back on again!
Seems odd that the internal wastegate of said upgraded turbo, cannot keep the boost in check.

No, you misunderstand.
I always had an internal wastegate, but the old turbo exhaust housing had a piece welded to it that seperated the dump from the waste gate.
And that was a t25/28.
Now I have a gt28/71.
Naturally, these build boost more easily than the old turbo. All I have to do is redesign the dump, all will be fine.
This car was never an attempt to build mass power, thats my next build. This was just to build a strong relyable street turbo setup. Getting things working right is more important than building power....

[Jccck]

This car was never an attempt to build mass power, thats my next build. This was just to build a strong relyable street turbo setup. Getting things working right is more important than building power....

Now i follow =P

And that's the way to do it.. Reliable is the way to go! Power comes second.
I've even considered swapping back to the OEM Engine Mounts, Traction Bar and Flywheel just for a little better driveability.

[ThePacman]

Now i follow =P

And that's the way to do it.. Reliable is the way to go! Power comes second.
I've even considered swapping back to the OEM Engine Mounts, Traction Bar and Flywheel just for a little better driveability.

Well I love my 11lb fly wheel and stage 4 clutch.
And about to fit the after market mounts and traction bar I already have... LOL
I don't care how "racecar" it feels. As long as it never breaks down...

[Jccck]

Well I love my 11lb fly wheel and stage 4 clutch.
And about to fit the after market mounts and traction bar I already have... LOL
I don't care how "racecar" it feels. As long as it never breaks down...

I've got an 8.9lb flywheel.. Haha it's a mean son of a bitch.
I have ESP Mounts and Tractionbar, i like them.. Just don't have anything in your glove box, that way it won't rattle haha.
Good mindset to have!
My tuner has always loved how i've got 3x more power than a stock CB7 Accord, yet it drives just as nicely.

[ThePacman]

Yup.... Driveability>power....!
"hic"