The Kswap Thread

[Vvvtec]

Don't think we have a dedicated Kswap thread yet... a place for everyone to share their knowledge/experience/thoughts.

Plenty of info on the swap etc on K20a.org etc, but would be great to see more local stuff

Go for it

[Bludger]

B > k

end thread.

[mocchi]

140kw with oem parts is pretty nice in lightweight chassis.
i just hope price in parts would go down

just to contribute:
Swapping Cams - Timing chain - K24
on the k24 you line up the dots on the cam gears between the two colored marks on the chain
on the k20 you line up the dots on the cam gears right on the colored marks on the chain

k20 chain has a total of 3 marks
k24 chain has a total of 5 marks

DO NOT LINE THE TIMING CHAIN DOTS ON ONE LINK...line the dots in between LINKS...this is for the k24 block only

1. Set the crankshaft to top dead center (TDC). Align the TDC mark (A) on the crankshaft sprocket with the pointer (B) on the engine block.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/1-10.gif

2. Set the camshafts to TDC. The punch mark (A) on the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator and the punch mark (B) on the exhaust camshaft sprocket should be at the top. Align the TDC marks (C) on the VTC actuator and exhaust camshaft sprocket.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/2-6.gif

3. Install the cam chain on the crankshaft sprocket with the colored piece (A) aligned with the punch mark (B) on the crankshaft sprocket.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/3-5.gif

4. Install the cam chain on the VTC actuator and the exhaust camshaft sprocket with the punch marks (A) aligned with the center of the two colored pieces (B).
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/4-5.gif

[Vvvtec]

Agreed ^

Such an expensive swap still

[na-118]

agreed such and expensive swap with 8-15k give or take for a k swap
8-15k for a b series will get you wrapped around a pole,

though i could imagine the torque and realiabilty,

[na-118]

do most of the k swappers out there go for, hybrid racing parts, ktuned ? etc

what is the best value for money ?

[Vvvtec]

do most of the k swappers out there go for, hybrid racing parts, ktuned ? etc

what is the best value for money ?

While i've been collecting parts for my swap, I've found I've been liking the Hybrid Racing products quiet a lot. HR tend to do alot of the hard work regarding R&D on new Kswap specific parts ie: shifter box/cables etc, whereas Ktuned always seem to be that one step behind, often releasing their own version of a HR designed product.

Price wise, fairrrrly similar I guess, from what i've experienced. You've pretty much got the choice of using OEM parts cheaply, or fork out for the nice equivalent parts from HR/Ktuned.

Both are awesome quality though, I think Hybrid Racing.com and Ktuned.com are my two favourite sites these days lol...

[Cartoon]

Using a mix of hybrid racing and Oem mostly. Towards the 15k on a k24 swap gets u some nice goodies with it.

U can do the swap cheap or pay the bit extra for a much better set up. Not a fan of 5sp or euro 6sp swaps.

I thought about building the b but the k is a better platform, better Oem power and torque with much much more potential plus newer and reliability

[Vvvtec]

Using a mix of hybrid racing and Oem mostly. Towards the 15k on a k24 swap gets u some nice goodies with it.

U can do the swap cheap or pay the bit extra for a much better set up. Not a fan of 5sp or euro 6sp swaps.

I thought about building the b but the k is a better platform, better Oem power and torque with much much more potential plus newer and reliability

Yup, that's pretty much sums up why I chose to Kswap exactly.

[na-118]

15k with the nice goodies.. does that include labour to install the donk, wiring etc in?

[na-118]

does anybody have diagram, video of how the vtc 50 degree works? interested to know,

[lilthug]

does anybody have diagram, video of how the vtc 50 degree works? interested to know,
http://www.hondata.com/tuning_k24a2_tsx_engine.html
not video

but explains 50 degree vtc somewhat


hope it helps

[na-118]

thanks petrol

[Vvvtec]

Here man


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtRlQrAc5IY

[mnc]

I find both hybrid-racing and k-tuned are good companies within the K series/swap community.
I wouldn't say k-tuned is one step behind hybrid-racing because they have a lot of quality parts hybrid-racing does not have. vice versa.

Both companies have great products. Quality stuff and self explanatory on how it improves functionality for the user and not to mention the added bling.

Warning! both companies and their products could do damage to your wallet.

[GSi_PSi]

^ i agreee, i had some ktuned parts, was very good quality

although was kinda pissed they sent me wrong parts when i needed to install my fuel rail kit asap.

was all done and rectified though

[Cartoon]

Na-118

My 15k was not with install but included all wiring, kpro, box and rebuild with after market LSD, clutch and fly, k24a2 (or what ever was the good k24 lol) full rebuild with a mix of after market and Oem type r parts, little bit of head work and a better intake set up, fuel set up, ps set up mounts shafts etc.

[DNYALL]

I spent close to 20k on my k24 swap. All included. GB, motor, bolt on's, sub-frame, ECU, wiring etc etc That was including my Discount on HR products and doing it all myself :/ mind you, i didn't hold back on some stuff like the gearbox for example. My gearbox is worth more than my engine and everything on it lol

While I'm posting in here, has any one else experienced problems with TPS sensors and Kswaps? aftermarket or OEM?

[Cartoon]

Gear box is a killer. U can pick up a k24 for like $1200. Type r box is like $3000 lol.

For me another good thing is I track my car a bit. I blow the motor it's like half the price of a b18c7

[na-118]

some good info, thanks cartoon, if you were going for example a type r box which go for about 2-3k at the moment, wouldn't you use the k24 box and get a gearx gear set or am i missing something here?

[Bludger]

some good info, thanks cartoon, if you were going for example a type r box which go for about 2-3k at the moment, wouldn't you use the k24 box and get a gearx gear set or am i missing something here?
are you even going K series powered?

am i missing something here?

[Cartoon]

Na I'm actually running an fn2r box which is cheap, modified the box a little to work and using aftermarket LSD.

[Cartoon]

Also why buy a box that's geared all wrong, pull it apart and build it up. That's pricy alone

[Vvvtec]

I just went for DC5R box

[na-118]

hmm, for example DIY then,

obviously you can aquire a k24 with box for about 1250

atleast you know it's pretty much a brand new reconditioned box with new gears bearings etc?




Also why buy a box that's geared all wrong, pull it apart and build it up. That's pricy alone

[na-118]

not going k series baubag, just want to ask for myself and others that want to get into k series or want to know more about it.

:)




are you even going K series powered?

am i missing something here?

[XB-16-AX]

Mate of mine spend bout 12k installed. K24 with AC no ps yet, but with 50deg vtc, kpro v3, 5spd, stage4 clutch & flywheel, decent headers, ekk1 hasports.

Oem and aftermarket combination parts were used - axles, shifter box, linkages, 70mm TB, port matched IM etc.. 150fwkw v1 Tuned on E85, 2.5inch zorst..

Apparently with 3inch would have prob gained more.

In the otherside the country, my k20/24 is still work in progress, been sitting in my garage in QLD for over 6months.. Wrk commitments got most of my time :(

[Bludger]

Mate of mine spend bout 12k installed. K24 with AC no ps yet, but with 50deg vtc, kpro v3, 5spd, stage4 clutch & flywheel, decent headers, ekk1 hasports.

Oem and aftermarket combination parts were used - axles, shifter box, linkages, 70mm TB, port matched IM etc.. 150fwkw v1 Tuned on E85, 2.5inch zorst..

Apparently with 3inch would have prob gained more.

In the otherside the country, my k20/24 is still work in progress, been sitting in my garage in QLD for over 6months.. Wrk commitments got most of my time :(
was his name Ryan?

[na-118]

Mate of mine spend bout 12k installed. K24 with AC no ps yet, but with 50deg vtc, kpro v3, 5spd, stage4 clutch & flywheel, decent headers, ekk1 hasports.

Oem and aftermarket combination parts were used - axles, shifter box, linkages, 70mm TB, port matched IM etc.. 150fwkw v1 Tuned on E85, 2.5inch zorst..

Apparently with 3inch would have prob gained more.

In the otherside the country, my k20/24 is still work in progress, been sitting in my garage in QLD for over 6months.. Wrk commitments got most of my time :(

which one v1 or v3

[XB-16-AX]

which one v1 or v3

V1 tune.. V3 kpro.. Lol

[XB-16-AX]

was his name Ryan?

Nah he used to be on OH as IV73CI..

Good too see you got your acc back..

[na-118]

what you laughing about i'm only learning mate .



V1 tune.. V3 kpro.. Lol

[Vvvtec]

Mate of mine spend bout 12k installed. K24 with AC no ps yet, but with 50deg vtc, kpro v3, 5spd, stage4 clutch & flywheel, decent headers, ekk1 hasports.

Oem and aftermarket combination parts were used - axles, shifter box, linkages, 70mm TB, port matched IM etc.. 150fwkw v1 Tuned on E85, 2.5inch zorst..

Apparently with 3inch would have prob gained more.

In the otherside the country, my k20/24 is still work in progress, been sitting in my garage in QLD for over 6months.. Wrk commitments got most of my time :(

Awesome result from a stock motor! I'm aiming for similar results with my motor, only difference between setups is I'll be running K20 oil pump, should free up 1 or 2kw lol

[mocchi]

what you laughing about i'm only learning mate .

dont think he was laffin at you, seems like laughing on the fact that hes using v1 tune on a v3.
dat paradox

wat

[EKVTIR-T]

dont think he was laffin at you, seems like laughing on the fact that hes using v1 tune on a v3.
dat paradox

wat
Yeah I thought this also.

http://www.blotisfoo.com/images/thepartypetersellers.jpg

[XB-16-AX]

dont think he was laffin at you, seems like laughing on the fact that hes using v1 tune on a v3.
dat paradox

wat

Roger that!

[XB-16-AX]

Awesome result from a stock motor! I'm aiming for similar results with my motor, only difference between setups is I'll be running K20 oil pump, should free up 1 or 2kw lol

Cool man, he was going to put a k20 oil pump, but he ran out of time.

Ive got a s2000 moroso pump on my k24 block..im just deciding on whether if im going to do the internals whilst the block us open..

Let us know how u go once you put your parts together and well go for a cruise once im back on the gold coast..

[Vvvtec]

Cool man, he was going to put a k20 oil pump, but he ran out of time.

Ive got a s2000 moroso pump on my k24 block..im just deciding on whether if im going to do the internals whilst the block us open..

Let us know how u go once you put your parts together and well go for a cruise once im back on the gold coast..

What are you looking for from the setup? Want to rev a bit higher with that K20 head? or jsut after more compression?

Yeah mate im keen as for a cruise when you're back in town!

[XB-16-AX]

What are you looking for from the setup? Want to rev a bit higher with that K20 head? or jsut after more compression?

Yeah mate im keen as for a cruise when you're back in town!

Yeh just looking at being able to rev abit more for track use.

And the internals just for mire of stability and reliability on constant high revs..

Then if i get bored of NA, then I might put a turbo on it.. Just depends, but for now i need to put the pieces back together.. Oh wells..

What intake setup have u chosen?

We trialled fitted a SRI on iv73ci k24 and this time we can hear the vtec crossover louder and sounds so much linear .. Ill see if i can take a pic.. Its just a temp setup but doesnt get hot too from where we located the filter...

[GSi_PSi]

ryan pls

[Cartoon]

One thing I have noticed with k swaps. All the big built motors seem to get sold
Soon after their built. Could this be due to drivability issues?

I'm only looking at 150ish kw and want more of a reliability thing

[GSi_PSi]

One thing with most K swaps ive driven/been it etc..

They always smell like fuel .... i guess its because most people just leave the breather line of the fuel lines open to atmosphere and dont run the stock charcoal canister

myself included , silly me this was one of the things i hated about my ol rex and the solution is really quite simple

if i were to get/build another k swap car here how id do it.... i guess a lot of hard parkers would think this is just engine bay cluter but there is many ways
to hide it. And dont give me "oh my car doesnt smell and i dont run any of this " because trust me it does...... the smell usually comes after a drive and when that whiff comes
prepare to get a nasty ass headache.

http://www.crxkswap.com/Images/Sources/Fuel/EvapIllustrated-1024.jpg

[Vvvtec]

Good post Sami ^^

Just use braided lines and it will look good anyway :p

[mocchi]

not all braided line, needs to be teflon lined
otherwise additives in fuel will still permeate out on rubber hose
just like those brown layer of shit on our oem rubber lines

[GSi_PSi]

+1 to teflon lined....

i gotta get me a kswap again but i want all the little luxories lol like not smelling like shit after a long drive,

[EG5]

do most of the k swappers out there go for, hybrid racing parts, ktuned ? etc

what is the best value for money ?

We've been using Hasport mounts since our 1st K20A swap back in 2004.
Reliable product , Good customer service

K Tuned , Hybrid Racing , Karcept
They are all good products with similar price range

[mocchi]

We've been using Hasport mounts since our 1st K20A swap back in 2004.
Reliable product , Good customer service

K Tuned , Hybrid Racing , Karcept
They are all good products with similar price range


V3 is looking heaps better

I have the old version and the alloy locking nut failed on me at the track, belt came off and cut through the oil cooler line...

doesnt seem that good there
did ktuned send you guys any replacement?

[EKVTIR-T]

Guys be mindful of revealing too much info as some of it is valuable and can be used for personal gain,not to be given out freely.

People charge for some of this info you are sharing

[Cartoon]

I don't think were telling everything here :) but we are not sharing anything that can't be found on k20a or if u talk to hybrid either.

There are some things only my builder and I know about my set up :)

[Vvvtec]

Clint, nothing special has been revealed here..

the amount of kswap info found on this forum is minute compared to k20a.org

[mocchi]

Guys be mindful of revealing too much info as some of it is valuable and can be used for personal gain,not to be given out freely.

People charge for some of this info you are sharing

thats what forums should be all about, sharing information to members. we are car enthusiasts after all.

thats what i believe.
even hytech shared info regarding k series oil cam cap modification which is crucial for road racing.

i just think witholding information is not what car enthusiasts should do.

from enthusiasts, for enthusiasts.

[Bludger]

thats what forums should be all about, sharing information to members. we are car enthusiasts after all.

thats what i believe.
even hytech shared info regarding k series oil cam cap modification which is crucial for road racing.

i just think witholding information is not what car enthusiasts should do.

from enthusiasts, for enthusiasts.
dolan, plz

[Vvvtec]

thats what forums should be all about, sharing information to members. we are car enthusiasts after all.

thats what i believe.
even hytech shared info regarding k series oil cam cap modification which is crucial for road racing.

i just think witholding information is not what car enthusiasts should do.

from enthusiasts, for enthusiasts.

hit the nail on the head

[EG5]

doesnt seem that good there
did ktuned send you guys any replacement?

Sorting out with them now.

[mocchi]

dolan, plz

road race is not racing on public road, its what they call circuit racing.
sorry for the confusion, i shouldn't have used american terms.

[DNYALL]

Guys be mindful of revealing too much info as some of it is valuable and can be used for personal gain,not to be given out freely.

People charge for some of this info you are sharing

Seriously why even write this. If you have the knowledge and are willing to share then good for everyone.

[XB-16-AX]

Seriously why even write this. If you have the knowledge and are willing to share then good for everyone.

Agreed..

[na-118]

hey guys, has anyone had problems with running e85 with k series, for example fuel lines being eaten out and that

[Bludger]

hey guys, has anyone had problems with running e85 with k series, for example fuel lines being eaten out and that
fark, legit question.

I'm not a fan of this for this reason.....

also the way it absorbs moisture.

[na-118]

i'm running e85 on my turbo setup in my eg, hasn't caused any dramas yet, thought it's probably bound to happen, i also drive it daily

[Bludger]

i'm running e85 on my turbo setup in my eg, hasn't caused any dramas yet, thought it's probably bound to happen, i also drive it daily
where do you fill up?

[na-118]

moorebank / casula caltex

[will88]

i've been on E85 for almost a year now, no issues yet plus Kswap.

[zco]

friend pulled his injectors out of his mirage on e85 setup.. looked like some seals were melted or somewhat..

aparantly caltex has some additive that causes this ? (and is not for sale for this main reason in two other states) but yeh. heads up

[XB-16-AX]

Fck apparently earls performance sells special hoses to suit e85 and possibly O rings for injectors too.

Worth a try for those who uses e85.

United petrol stations sells pure e85 unlike caltex they change the blend depending on seasons etc.

[na-118]

NOT all united petrol stations, only selected ones as i have come across this at my local united service station.

there are other hoses out there from other manufacturers that can support e85 look into it,
but for injector seals not sure yet,

[XB-16-AX]

Got a Q,

Is it possible to remove and refit another subframe to an EG or EK without removing the engine out?

[na-118]

yes there is, support the motor with lumps of wood

[Killa From Manila]

Anybody have experience with getting the speedo to work using K20Z1 transmission? Using Dakota Digital SGI-5 to convert the VSS signal

[Benson]

We used it all the time to covert the 05 Type S and Accord euro gearbox speed signals. Great unit for accurate speed readings

[jayeg]

what are stock k24a3 with the euro six speed worth with hondata and and e/h/i on a base tune without labour
im looking to run in the high 12s on a eg hatch.

[EKVTIR-T]

what are stock k24a3 with the euro six speed worth with hondata and and e/h/i on a base tune without labour
im looking to run in the high 12s on a eg hatch.
high 12's,go boosted B

[jayeg]

i dont want turbo want to try NA

[Benson]

what are stock k24a3 with the euro six speed worth with hondata and and e/h/i on a base tune without labour
im looking to run in the high 12s on a eg hatch.

If you have a look under my trader thread, i got a K24a3 package for $9750 (without installation). That packages includes everything required for the swap and is guarantee to make 140-145kw at the wheels.

[jayeg]

i dont want to spend that much i see you got all brand new parts and extra bits i want just a basic budget setup im looking to try and do it
for between 5 to 7gs max i already have the brakes and sussy side done

[jayeg]

come on guys give me a price on a basic k24 setup without labour

[IVTECI]

Your lookin about 7-9k just on basic parts needed to get going.

These are using oem parts and no upgrades to clutch/flywheel or injectors etc.

Best bet would be buy a k24 motor/gbox/ecu/shifter cable & box and engine charge harness. Easy $1.5-2k

Then buy yourself the stage 3 ktuned kswap kit 3-5k.

Then u will need your exhaust welded up to meet with the headers to cat. $150-250.

If u dont want to use oem ecu, then kpro v3 + tune = $1.8k

Plus new belts, oil, coolant, spark plugs $250

Plus other misc fabrication $300

Engine Mounts $500-600. ( this may vary depending which mounts u buy as additional parts will be required. I.e dc/eg subframe and s/rack, fsb etc)

Ac/ps delete kit $300+

crv bracket $100

Optional
+ engineers cert $800-1k if ur in syd
+ bigger rotors & better pads $400

Then install it yourself.

These are just approx figures prices would vary.

The ktune kswap kits should have majority of parts u will need, driveshafts, harnesses, fuel kit, rad hoses and sensors, intake and headers

Hope these figures have helped out abit.

[Vvvtec]

come on guys give me a price on a basic k24 setup without labour

Benson has given you a price already. If you look around real hard, and if you have some luck you can probably knock ~$1k off that price by sourcing everything yourself and substituting some of the 'brand name' parts with used oem.

At the end of the day, it is still a very expensive swap.

[--drew--]

Question about the IACV for K20. Mine has been playing up lately specially since the weekend. Idle is screwed.

What tool if any, have any of you used to unscrew the 5 sided star screws that hold the electrical plug to the actual valve?

Went to repco, supercheap and sydney tools but did not find anything.

[mocchi]

Question about the IACV for K20. Mine has been playing up lately specially since the weekend. Idle is screwed.

What tool if any, have any of you used to unscrew the 5 sided star screws that hold the electrical plug to the actual valve?

Went to repco, supercheap and sydney tools but did not find anything.

torx screw set, try bursons or total tools or ebay

[OB]

Lesson of today: don't share dick

bwahahaha love it! (not dick!)

[CIV-18C]

Sorry to whinge.
But can the spam posts in here be deleted. (including this one)
I'd hate for it to ruin what is an informative thread.

[markismaximus]

Question about the IACV for K20. Mine has been playing up lately specially since the weekend. Idle is screwed.

What tool if any, have any of you used to unscrew the 5 sided star screws that hold the electrical plug to the actual valve?

Went to repco, supercheap and sydney tools but did not find anything.

I believe both small torx bits (for screwdrivers) and larger socket torx can be bought at bunnings.

[markismaximus]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_kincrome-solid-torx-bit-socket-set-11pce_10632.aspx

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_kincrome-torx-set-biy-socket-set-tamperproof-11pce_11252.aspx

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_kincrome-security-bit-holder-set-33pce_11254.aspx?search=kincrome&searchType=any&searchSubType=products&sort=priceasc&page=2

[Snoop_gee]

is there a way to take the intake manifold without the water pump ?

[_CRX_]

Yes ..remove all the bolts from the inlet manifold....then you need to remove the threaded studs (double nut the studs and remove them) then you can slide the inlet out without having to remove the water pump

[Snoop_gee]

^sometimes i wonder why u dont have a K series yourself.
YOUR THE MAN.
Many thanx i did end up find the info also..

i tried giving u a PQ and it comes up with this mummo jumbo.'
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to _CRX_ again

[--drew--]

OK guys. Have a problem.

My engine is idle hunting and I took it to my mechanic and he had a look over it.
He told me that it is idle hunting because of the choke. He said there is meant to be water running through it and there isn't hence why it is idle hunting.

Is he on the right track or what?

[Benson]

Your IACV is dirty or needs replacing

It doesnt need water to be run through it to work

[IVTECI]

OK guys. Have a problem.

My engine is idle hunting and I took it to my mechanic and he had a look over it.
He told me that it is idle hunting because of the choke. He said there is meant to be water running through it and there isn't hence why it is idle hunting.

Is he on the right track or what?

You need a new mechanic ..he must be fossilized.

As Benny said, IACV or a faulty/dirty TPS/MAP sensor.

[--drew--]

You need a new mechanic ..he must be fossilized.

As Benny said, IACV or a faulty/dirty TPS/MAP sensor.
Yeah, he's not really a modified car mechanic. More of a general one.

Aiight, shall have a look at it next week.

[Killa From Manila]

Little diagram I made up for those of you who may be using a k20z1 gearbox and want a working speedo. The Dakota unit converts the high speed signal from the k20z1 box to a signal readable by clusters in kswap vehicles.

Thanks goes out to Benson for some of the info I needed. Cant believe theres not a proper writeup on honda-tech or k20.org about this.

http://i.imgur.com/rjmML.jpg

note: Output 4 can also be connected to your kswap conversion harness that goes to your vehicles cluster. This way is easier because the plug under the drivers side dash is real hard to access. Using a Hybrid Racing DC/EG conversion harness connect Output 4 to the WHT/GRN wire.
As always refer to your cars ECU pinout diagrams and trace out the correct wire before connecting.

[Vvvtec]

Beast ^^

[--drew--]

Just an update.

Finally got around to checking the IACV out and it was dirty as.

Cleaned it out plus the throttle body and good as new.

Thanks for the help Benny and IVTECI

[CIV-18C]

Good to hear Drew.
Although, I also do suggest you go looking for another mechanic. K-Swap cars and even newer cars are not for the general mechanics to look at anymore.

[--drew--]

Good to hear Drew.
Although, I also do suggest you go looking for another mechanic. K-Swap cars and even newer cars are not for the general mechanics to look at anymore.
Thanx Mark. Was an effort and a half to undo one of the allen key bolts for the throttle body though.
Adrian from TODA sure put em on tightly.

Got any hook-ups for round our area seeing as though TOP ONE are a bit too far and Hanny's is expensive?

[CIV-18C]

Thanx Mark. Was an effort and a half to undo one of the allen key bolts for the throttle body though.
Adrian from TODA sure put em on tightly.

Got any hook-ups for round our area seeing as though TOP ONE are a bit too far and Hanny's is expensive?

Yup.
Benny and Jimmy at BYP are not too far (Smithfield). I've personally known them for a few years and these guys know anything that came out of the Honda factory very well .
And even closer, is the shop I mentioned to you before, Ison Industries at Blacktown. That shop is run by James. He is a gun mechanic. With any car. Worked on my old EG (still is), recently did work on my EK, worked on my sister's Mini Cooper S, my Dad's 4WD, Uncle's Celica, cousins Astra, well you get the drift lol
But he is also really starting to specialise in Hondas. I've turned all my friends to him and they all call him for any mechanic work too.

=)

[Snoop_gee]

whats the thoughts with blocking the IAVC some are complaining of the fact having to adjust the nut/screw.Once the blocking plate is installed.
Others have said because its only a weekender or trackcar it doesnt matter.

But if its a daily its alot more annoying.

[mocchi]

best to keep aav if you delete iacv. it lets you idle higher when engine cold and lower when engine is warm.
adjust idle when engine warm or close aav then adjust idle screw.

[Snoop_gee]

so blocking the IACV means its all manual operation.
where as keeping IACV its automatically controlled via the Kpro.

[mocchi]

Forgive my ignorance but I need to ask a few things about open and closed Loop in K pro.

So when running the motor in closed loop, the computer adjusts the fuel so that the A/F ratio is ideal. In open loop, the car runs strictly off the fuel maps that are in the calibration. That is what I understand so far..

My questions are:

1)If the computer adjusts the fuel on its own, why do people street tune before they hit the dyno to adjust the a/f ratio?

2)I understand that when tuning on the dyno, it needs to be in open loop.. but when the car is in closed loop, is there a way to see the adjustements the computer is making to the fuel values?


Basically, I have this calibration that kicks ass on my car, but in open loop a/f ratio on K pro is crazy high... so I have to run it in closed loop.

Can a calibration loose power from switching from closed loop to open loop?


Last question.. Some people are telling me that the stock 02 sensor is not very accurate and that I should go by the readings of a a/f sensor that gets stuck in the exhaust during a dyno session.. and basically not to worry too much about the Kpro A/F reading... I find that hard to believe.. any input?

I basically want to be able to use that calibration on a daily basis without risking going lean.

When datalogging on the street, is there a point into doing it while in closed loop? Or should it always be in open loop so that the user can see the actual a/d ratio...

Sorry about these questions, but I need to understand this 100%


there is a setting in parameters for open loop. it defaults to 89kpa i think. if the MAP reads less than 89kpa, the ECU is in closed loop. it'll trim for 14.7 AF. once the MAP goes above 89kpa, the ECU switches to open loop and just go straight off the tables.

why would i want to switch open loop? because closed loop is slow to react. closed loop fuel trim is at least 0.5sec "behind" the actual AF reading.

in closed loop, the ECU targets 14.7 which is way too lean for WOT operations. even if you're on the street and you just floor it, the ECU switches to open loop automatically.


re. #1 the point of street tuning is that if done correctly, you can get your WOT and near-WOT columns 95% tuned... meaning less time spent on dyno tuning = $$ saved. or, you can spend that time on the dyno fine-tuning cam angles, VTEC crossover, ignition advance etc. instead of on basic A/F adjustments.

re. #2 in closed loop you will still see what your A/F and fuel trims are doing, as well as knock. if your car is a daily driver then it's just as important (if not more important) to spend a good amount of time with closed loop disabled and tune the part-throttle/normally closed-loop columns. the more accurate these areas are tuned, the better your car will run in closed loop, because the ECU doesn't have to work so hard making large fuel trim adjustments. if these areas are out of whack, your fuel trim will be swinging all over the place, and since it lags it takes away from the smoothness and efficiency of the engine.

Tuning for intakes:
For tuning purposes it is important to know the resonance point (the rpm where the intake makes that extra sound as if you were blowing on a bottle) of a CAI. For example, the AEM CAI on an RSX-S has a resonance point of 5200, the short ram AEM V2’s is at about 5900. Longer pipes have lower resonance points. There is a torque peak (and often a lean spot because an untuned motor doesn’t get enough fuel) at the resonance point. You can tune for different intakes. Doug has mentioned that pressurized intakes can really make a difference. Build a box around it to force air into it.

Hytech 4-2-1 2.5" collector on k24a3 with RBC have resonance point at about 4-5krpm
RBC flows good on 6-8k rpm.

as shown on datalog, afr lean spikes.


Some of the notes are sourced from fairly dated seminars for the B-Series or RSX. Most of them are plain wrong for the Civic Si, but here are the major changes for the Civic Si:

Reliability: Don't set the rev limiter any higher than 8600 rpm on a stock engine.

Dyno repeatability: Do not switch off the knock sensor nor primary o2 when tuning the Civic Si.

Tuning for torque: Don't tunr an endurance engine rich.

Optimize starting and idling: Cranking ignition does not use the ignition tables.

Knock: The Civic Si ECU will not advance / ratard on knock (the notes were from a B-Series ECU).

Economy and emissions: Part throttle ignition advance is optimized for economy, best not to change. Also, do NOT lean out the part throttle and run in open loop for economy as suggested.

What did Hondata find when they analyzed the ECU?: The stock Civic i ECU does not run rich at high rpm. The Civic Si stock ignition timing is not conversative.

VTC: There are five fuel & ignition tables for low cam & 5 for high cam.

Software: For the love of god, #3 cylinder does not run hot on any K-Series. This is B-Series data.

Trubo VTEC tuning: If your cam angle is ever 0 at 8000 rpm, you have a major exhaust restriction which needs to be looked at.

Supercharged engines: Don't set the WOT closed loop higher than 90 kPa.


There may be more, this was just from a quick skim.

http://www.pencomputing.com/rsx/The_Hondata_KPro103.htm
http://www.pencomputing.com/rsx/adjusting_fuel.html
http://www.pencomputing.com/rsx/kpro_advanced_tuning.htm
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/hondata/185138-hondata-guide-tuning.html
http://www.hondata.com/ktech.html

[Killa From Manila]

Got a question for those experienced with tuning kpro as i plan on getting a tune done soon.

My car is currently running without the factory primary o2 sensor, its in open loop.
Is it recommended to buy a factory primary o2 sensor and run the car in closed loop or is it okay to have the car run open loop 24/7? The car is not a daily, just a weekend car.

I also have an AEM UEGO which i will eventually connect to the ELD input but afaik thats just for datalogging right? and you cannot run the car in closed loop with it.

any input will be appreciated cheers

[mocchi]

you got a cat? running in open loop can kill your cat quick they say. also not to mention terrible fuel economy.

i suggest buy factory denso o2 sensor, its wideband too.

you using stock ecu? prc? k20?

for me running in open loop 24/7 is not a great idea considering o2 sensor is only 100-150

[Killa From Manila]

yea running a cat. setup ive got is k20z1, pnf ecu with kpro

if the car is tuned properly open loop cant be much defferent than closed can it? because the way i understand it the ecu runs in closed loop for light loads then changes to open loop and uses your tuned maps when manifold air pressure goes above 80kpa or am i way off track? lol

[mocchi]

yea running a cat. setup ive got is k20z1, pnf ecu with kpro

if the car is tuned properly open loop cant be much defferent than closed can it? because the way i understand it the ecu runs in closed loop for light loads then changes to open loop and uses your tuned maps when manifold air pressure goes above 80kpa or am i way off track? lol

youre right mun, its switches to open loop when WOT (> 89 kpa) by default in kpro. it uses your fuel maps + short fuel trim when in closed loop.
when it goes to open loop, it just looks on fuel map, no adjustment on short trim.
if its tuned properly then i dont think its bad, but im not too sure.

hang on, does it even start without o2 sensor?
doesnt it throw a code?

wat

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_24.gif

[Killa From Manila]

Starts runs and drives just uncheck closed loop box in kpro.

[GSi_PSi]

Definately get the o2 sensor, fuel economy will be shithouse without, not to mention the car will feel laggy..

my swap didnt have a working o2 sensor for a while.... was nugget

srs

[CIV-18C]

How bad is it without?

Economy and performance wise?

On K Swaps, can you just use the OEM O2 Sensor or do you have to use a different one?

[CIV-18C]

Spark Plugs

Can everyone confirm what brand, type, and part number everyone is using in their K ?
Mainly K20A Type R

Just did a search and different results everywhere
=\

[Killa From Manila]

How bad is it without?

Economy and performance wise?

On K Swaps, can you just use the OEM O2 Sensor or do you have to use a different one?

i dont think economy and performance would be too bad if you spent a long time fine tuning part throttle conditions, but if u just removed the o2 sensor it would run crap.

for kswaps with kpro use an 02-04 primary sensor (because kpro uses 02-04 ecu).
i just bought a denso replacement 02-04 rsx type s o2 sensor 234-9005 this is the sensor used for all kswaps with kpro. alot cheaper than oem by a couple hundred

[CIV-18C]

i dont think economy and performance would be too bad if you spent a long time fine tuning part throttle conditions, but if u just removed the o2 sensor it would run crap.

for kswaps with kpro use an 02-04 primary sensor (because kpro uses 02-04 ecu).
i just bought a denso replacement 02-04 rsx type s o2 sensor 234-9005 this is the sensor used for all kswaps with kpro. alot cheaper than oem by a couple hundred

Thanks for that info.
Could you tell me where you got your sensor from?
Also, still wanting to confirm spark plug part numbers.
Any ideas?

[MEN15S]

Came across this dont know if its been posted in here yet but i looks like its everything you need just add motor gearbox and a car

http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-Tuned-Level-4-Swap-Package-Civic-Integra-EG-DC-EK-K20-K20z-K24-K20a2-K20z1-/271024098726?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1a4b8da6&vxp=mtr

can anyone see anything else you would need looks like a pretty good kit :)

If this is what I think doing a K20 into my brother DC2 next to nothing with reselling his old B18 and box to get some money back :)

[Vvvtec]

Came across this dont know if its been posted in here yet but i looks like its everything you need just add motor gearbox and a car

http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-Tuned-Level-4-Swap-Package-Civic-Integra-EG-DC-EK-K20-K20z-K24-K20a2-K20z1-/271024098726?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1a4b8da6&vxp=mtr

can anyone see anything else you would need looks like a pretty good kit :)

If this is what I think doing a K20 into my brother DC2 next to nothing with reselling his old B18 and box to get some money back :)

These kits are really good value, and they save alot of headaches.

However, they sort of rely on you having a full swap already, ie motor with harness, gearbox etc.

If your piecing bits together youre going to have to source alot of little bits and pieces like sensors etc.

[Vvvtec]

Guys, need your help/opinions.

Changing to a 50deg VTC in my K24, need advice on getting the crank pulley off. What do you guys recommend.

[newpaddy3]

Guys, need your help/opinions.

Changing to a 50deg VTC in my K24, need advice on getting the crank pulley off. What do you guys recommend.

Brute force. notsrs


http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87911

[stocky]

Guys, need your help/opinions.

Changing to a 50deg VTC in my K24, need advice on getting the crank pulley off. What do you guys recommend.

You dont need to take the crank pulley off. Just undo the black chain tensioner cover, lock the tensioner and then proceed with taking off the cam and gear. You will need to keep tension on the chain though to stop it from moving.

[mocchi]

i think he wants to change timing chain too.

[Vvvtec]

Yes sorry, I'm putting on a fresh timing chain and K20 oil pump

[mnc]

Crazy rattle gun with enough torque to break your wrist.

That should do it.

[Vvvtec]

140kw with oem parts is pretty nice in lightweight chassis.
i just hope price in parts would go down

just to contribute:
Swapping Cams - Timing chain - K24
on the k24 you line up the dots on the cam gears between the two colored marks on the chain
on the k20 you line up the dots on the cam gears right on the colored marks on the chain

k20 chain has a total of 3 marks
k24 chain has a total of 5 marks

DO NOT LINE THE TIMING CHAIN DOTS ON ONE LINK...line the dots in between LINKS...this is for the k24 block only

1. Set the crankshaft to top dead center (TDC). Align the TDC mark (A) on the crankshaft sprocket with the pointer (B) on the engine block.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/1-10.gif

2. Set the camshafts to TDC. The punch mark (A) on the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator and the punch mark (B) on the exhaust camshaft sprocket should be at the top. Align the TDC marks (C) on the VTC actuator and exhaust camshaft sprocket.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/2-6.gif

3. Install the cam chain on the crankshaft sprocket with the colored piece (A) aligned with the punch mark (B) on the crankshaft sprocket.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/3-5.gif

4. Install the cam chain on the VTC actuator and the exhaust camshaft sprocket with the punch marks (A) aligned with the center of the two colored pieces (B).
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/4-5.gif

Quoted because this is awesome.

[Vvvtec]

New timing chain arrived yesterday, K20 oil pump setup also shipped yesterday.

Will provide pics when everythibg arrives and is installed

[CIV-18C]

How much ground clearance are you guys running k swaps generally leaving for the sump?
Or maybe just post your car + ride height?
I want to go lower but am scared of smashing my sump
=(

[mocchi]

85mm cat converter body is lowest point :/
pan is about 100mm

2 finger gap

[Chr1s]

haha..

I still remember that time I smashed my sump coming down over a speed hump because of some dodgy roadworks... end result = (lip damage is from driveway not smashing!)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/291063_10150370445263497_1584656954_o.jpg

[Vvvtec]

Damn! How fast did you hit it?

[Chr1s]

Was taking the speedhump at usual speed, they were doing some sort of road works, they decided to dig right after the speed hump so there was a lip between the end of the hump and the new starting of the road (hard to explain but it's usually that annoying sharp edge when they start resurfacing works that buckle wheels!)

So the wheels dug down into that low section and bang, the hit was square on the edge of the sump lol, it made a small tear in the pan, enough for a strange smell to occur, next thing you know a hint of smoke!

I thought I had to get the fire extinguisher out LOL

[Tekkenforce]

^ think i spotted you just now around cab

[Chr1s]

Probably someone else, my car is a bare shell.

[Vvvtec]

Was taking the speedhump at usual speed, they were doing some sort of road works, they decided to dig right after the speed hump so there was a lip between the end of the hump and the new starting of the road (hard to explain but it's usually that annoying sharp edge when they start resurfacing works that buckle wheels!)

So the wheels dug down into that low section and bang, the hit was square on the edge of the sump lol, it made a small tear in the pan, enough for a strange smell to occur, next thing you know a hint of smoke!

I thought I had to get the fire extinguisher out LOL

Ah thats horrible man, unlucky :(

Car looked amazing though mate, props! :thumbsup:

[CIV-18C]

Damn. That sucks. Did you tow it home?
Mocchi: Your stump must be really low if that is the case. I'd like to see a pic if you have one.

Has anybody thought of using an Accord or CRV sump since they're made of steel?

[Chr1s]

?

Most K swapped cars have sumps that are low to the ground, it's low and the car might not even be that low. I had a few dings on my sump from small taps and I was running the steel sump when it broke, they are not invisible..it did suck and I had to tow it home lol.

[Vvvtec]

My mate destoryed the sump on his H22 swapped DC2 aswell... Just one of those things unfortunately.

[G-Stick]

Anyone know what belt I should be using (ep3 pulley and no AC) ?

[void-]

Anyone know what belt I should be using (ep3 pulley and no AC) ?

*edited*

[Killa From Manila]

no...belt for altenator, ps, ac

[void-]

no...belt for altenator, ps, ac

oh.. right.. sorry!!! :(

[CIV-18C]

Hi all.

Got an issue that I'd like to hear opinions on.

Kswaps and driveshafts.

My K20A is in an EK hatch and as it was built quite some time ago I am running EKK1 mounts.
And ever since I've put on more grippy tyres, the weakness in the driveshafts seems to have surfaced.

Before I put in the ideas I have that I'd like to discuss, I'd really appreciate hearing what others out there have experienced with this and what solutions they have come up with.

Thanks guys

Mark

[newpaddy3]

Hi all.

Got an issue that I'd like to hear opinions on.

Kswaps and driveshafts.

My K20A is in an EK hatch and as it was built quite some time ago I am running EKK1 mounts.
And ever since I've put on more grippy tyres, the weakness in the driveshafts seems to have surfaced.

Before I put in the ideas I have that I'd like to discuss, I'm really appreciate hearing what others out there have experienced with this and what solutions they have come up with.

Thanks guys

Mark

Have you snapped driveshafts?

[CIV-18C]

Have you snapped driveshafts?

I've gone through one set.
Although they were on there for about 6 years (since the swap was in the car), and weakened when I put stickier tyres on and probably due to driving the car a little bit more spiritedly (track days,etc) then my brother did.

Why is that?

[u mad?]

Dss m8y

[CIV-18C]

Dss m8y

Dss ???

[Vvvtec]

Havnt got any personal experience, but those EKK1 mounts you have are notorious for binding and breaking drive shafts.

How low is your car?

[Vvvtec]

Dss ???

Drive shaft shop. Level 2.9 and up, stronger shafts.

Even then, thats not going to solve the problem.

[newpaddy3]

I've gone through one set.
Although they were on there for about 6 years (since the swap was in the car), and weakened when I put stickier tyres on and probably due to driving the car a little bit more spiritedly (track days,etc) then my brother did.

Why is that?

Might need to invest in a beefier set up. Done a lot of modifications?

6 years is a long time though.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=100748

[newpaddy3]

Drive shaft shop. Level 2.9 and up, stronger shafts.

Even then, thats not going to solve the problem.

Pro Level lol

Once you go pro, you don't go slow.

http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/188638/21766542.jpg

[Vvvtec]

inb4 $2k on drive shafts lol

[CIV-18C]

Havnt got any personal experience, but those EKK1 mounts you have are notorious for binding and breaking drive shafts.

How low is your car?

Thanks for reply Vvvtec.
And you are right on that. I have also "heard" and "read" about their notoriousness, but as mentioned in the 6 years of running them have been fortunate enough to not have dealt with it. So i'm quite relieved on that point.
=)
Admittedly, my car is not setup to beat records or anything like that. It's more of a nice daily cruiser that just happens to have a Kswap in it.

If i'm honest, not low enough for my liking.
My brother has always kept it at a dropped but reasonable height due to the fear of the oil sump being smashed.
=\
For reference, it sits with a gap between the guard and tyre still.

[CIV-18C]

Drive shaft shop. Level 2.9 and up, stronger shafts.

Even then, thats not going to solve the problem.

Is that an actual shop name OR is that reference to go to one?

I think you're on the money there. Would just like to hear of other peoples thoughts and experiences.



Might need to invest in a beefier set up. Done a lot of modifications?

6 years is a long time though.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=100748

6 years is definitely a long time. So I do think I have been fortunate with the reliability and strength shown so far.
Interesting link. Will read up on that more during lunch break.
Thanks for sharing.


Pro Level lol

Once you go pro, you don't go slow.

http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/188638/21766542.jpg

Whoa!
Thick as.

[CIV-18C]

Might need to invest in a beefier set up. Done a lot of modifications?

6 years is a long time though.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=100748

Shoot. Forgot to reply to the question.
Uhhh. As for a lot of modifications? I'm not sure what you're referring to there?
The swap per say is a regular K Swap. Nothing too outrageous if that's what you were referring to.

[mocchi]

I've gone through one set.
Although they were on there for about 6 years (since the swap was in the car), and weakened when I put stickier tyres on and probably due to driving the car a little bit more spiritedly (track days,etc) then my brother did.

Why is that?

when you say snapped, be specific in what area of driveshaft snapped.
did the shaft itself break, cv crowns bind or ?

how low is your car sitting? take a pic of driveshaft angle while car on ground

[CIV-18C]

when you say snapped, be specific in what area of driveshaft snapped.
did the shaft itself break, cv crowns bind or ?

how low is your car sitting? take a pic of driveshaft angle while car on ground

It didn't actually snap.
More like really really worn and making the ticking noises and feeling the vibrations whilst driving.
I'd imagine it would be near binding at close to/at full lock turning.

I'll try and take a pic during lunch.

[CIV-18C]

Ok so I used my superior photo skills during lunch...

Anyway, the following pics are:

Current ride height:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/markv_123/20121026_135932.jpg

Drivers side

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/markv_123/20121026_135712.jpg

Passenger side

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/markv_123/20121026_140003.jpg

Sorry for the crappy photos. I didn't want to kneel on the ground in my suit lol
So I just crouched and tried my best.

I believe my options to improve the situation are:

- EKK2 engine mounts and EG/DC crossmember;
OR
- thicker shafts and/or 5 lug conversion as they have slightly larger shafts.

Any other options / solutions?

Thanks for the input so far too guys.
Much appreciated.

[Chr1s]

We would be wasting a fair whack of energy running these shafts at these angles.. I've seen worse than the above too. Funny thing is Williams ran some stupid angles on their F1 car a few years ago.

[CIV-18C]

Sorry. But what do you mean by wasting a fair whack of energy?

[newpaddy3]

Sorry. But what do you mean by wasting a fair whack of energy?

When the driveshaft isn't straight the engine needs to work harder to rotate it.

[Chr1s]

Constant velocity joints are ideally meant to run at a level angle and on the same axis as the output of the gearbox to the wheels. Anything out of this range will incur a loss.

[EKVTIR-T]

Theyre designed to operate at variable angles...

what causes the loss you say occurs?

[CIV-18C]

Theyre designed to operate at variable angles...

what causes the loss you say occurs?

Is that right ? Or is Chris right? Or both to a degree? lol
Sorry for the confusion, but it is an interesting point.

And imagine that. Kswapped cars not running to full potential yet being able to run how they do... NICE! hehehe

Also, on the driveshaft issue.
It does seem that the EKK2 mounts and EG/DC rack will help in fixing the angle problem.
But thicker shafts will also go a long way too.
Time for me to save up some coin for them
=)

[Vvvtec]

Is that right ? Or is Chris right? Or both to a degree? lol
Sorry for the confusion, but it is an interesting point.

And imagine that. Kswapped cars not running to full potential yet being able to run how they do... NICE! hehehe

Also, on the driveshaft issue.
It does seem that the EKK2 mounts and EG/DC rack will help in fixing the angle problem.
But thicker shafts will also go a long way too.
Time for me to save up some coin for them
=)

Both are right haha.

Before you get new shafts, make sure you weigh up the costs for each option. It might even be better to spend a little more and get the new EKK2's and eg/dc rack + new shafts. What is your budget?

[CIV-18C]

Both are right haha.

Before you get new shafts, make sure you weigh up the costs for each option. It might even be better to spend a little more and get the new EKK2's and eg/dc rack + new shafts. What is your budget?

Ultimately the whole package is ideal of course. EKK2, subframe, shafts and inner hub.
The only thing i'm not sure on is the price of the DC2R subframe? Do you/anybody know how much they go roughly?

In terms of budget (and timing). I really don't see the need for me to throw money at this side of the equation any time soon. With other things in my personal life closer and meaning more to me then my car on the horizon, it'll be in the new year until I purchase these things. So i'll be gradually putting the pennies away until the budget caters for the whole purchase.

[Vvvtec]

Ultimately the whole package is ideal of course. EKK2, subframe, shafts and inner hub.
The only thing i'm not sure on is the price of the DC2R subframe? Do you/anybody know how much they go roughly?

In terms of budget (and timing). I really don't see the need for me to throw money at this side of the equation any time soon. With other things in my personal life closer and meaning more to me then my car on the horizon, it'll be in the new year until I purchase these things. So i'll be gradually putting the pennies away until the budget caters for the whole purchase.

Good way to be man.

Can't comment on prices regarding parts for this swap, never looked into the EK Kswap much, been fixated on the DC/EG swap haha

Here's some reading if you havn't seen it yet

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35426

[89lude]

dc2r subframe is cheap. I got one here if you're keen. pm if interested

[CIV-18C]

Good way to be man.

Can't comment on prices regarding parts for this swap, never looked into the EK Kswap much, been fixated on the DC/EG swap haha

Here's some reading if you havn't seen it yet

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35426

Thanks matey.
=)

lol - understandably from your point though. If I ever drive up i'll be sure to hit you and the other QLD honda boys up.

Thanks for the link too.
Appreciate it.
Wish I saw this out of the office though.... LOL


dc2r subframe is cheap. I got one here if you're keen. pm if interested

Great!
no harm in collecting cheap parts for now..... right guys? LOL
Will do.

[EG5]

EKK2 + dc2/eg subframe will fix the problem

[CIV-18C]

EKK2 + dc2/eg subframe will fix the problem

Seems the way to go.

Apologies for sounding like a broken record guys.

Thank you to all those who shared their input.
Extra thanks to "mullens" who shared his experience in my car diary thread too.

Thus ends the chapter in this thread re; EK, Kswaps and driveshafts lol
Until I, or someone else, actually put new mounts in and documents it in here of course.
=)

It might get confusing. But maybe a reference / index page can be made at the start of the thread?
Although it might be a bit hard for VVVtec to monitor.

Anyway, carry on. lol

[Chr1s]

Theyre designed to operate at variable angles...

what causes the loss you say occurs?

They are designed to work at a certain range of angles, and each design (there are many) has different maximum operating angles that are able to sustain a certain load, otherwise they fail. It is pretty hard to transmit a fair amount of force through a coupler to change direction, this is why we use gearboxes - obviously we can't do this with driveshafts

The loss essentially comes from frictional losses. It gets worse as the operation angle increases. Each joint is unique in it's characteristic so it's not as simple as putting a number on it but it is known to be a loss operating at an angle. I don't have data on these shafts to spit numbers out otherwise I would

[Slow.ek1]

kswap almost complete so hard atm

[Cartoon]

kswap almost complete so hard atm

Know exactly how u feel

[neut]

Know exactly how u feel
i know how you feel too.

[Vvvtec]

Haha what are you guys stuck on?

[Cartoon]

Battling through the final part of my wiring and shifter cable install. Next is trying to remember where all the vacuum lines go. ;(

[Vvvtec]

Mines on the road :D got the swap done in 14 days :D

[Killa From Manila]

theres only like 2 vacuum lines lol what wiring are you doing? just the conversion harness ones?

[TbM]

Battling through the final part of my wiring and shifter cable install. Next is trying to remember where all the vacuum lines go. ;(
what part of the wiring is causing you trouble? vac lines are pretty easy

brake booster to intake manifold
pcv to intake manifold
valve cover to intake arm

charchol canister is like this IIRC
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/Hybrid93Hatch/IMG_3264_zoomed_rs77.jpg

1. nothing
2. fuel hard line that goes back to fuel tank
3. vacuum port on intake manifold
4. port on throttle body

[Cartoon]

I ran a dx canister. Guys is the states swap em over as there is less lines.

The wiring that was or is stil causing a small issue is the mess of the factory loom. 2 wires I'm left tracing. I think my conversion harness is all wired up right.

You guys got a photo of the coolant lines running into the idle controls valve?

[Cartoon]

The wiring that's causing the problem is mostly the Oem loom was a bit of a mess so I'm trying to clean that all up

[TbM]

i think you might be talking about one of those 2 port canisters, one goes to fuel hard line other goes to port on throttle body iirc.

Hopefully your conversion harness works,I did a bit of the wiring on alex's swap and the radiator fans wouldnt work, thought id screwed something up but turned out to be the conversion harness he got neglected to attach anything to the fan circuit lol, not hard to fix but a bit annoying lol.

[Benson]

From what ive learnt, the DC2 VTIR fan trigger via the Kpro is located on the a/c fan side. Its weird, but it works if you attach the fan to the a/c fan (b18c) plug

[Cartoon]

I have no ac stuff left in my car so I hope it will be ok :( we will find out sooner or later I guess.

Yeah my canister is the 2 port one. All hooked up and good to go. A few guys in the states swap over to the 2 port one.

[TbM]

From what ive learnt, the DC2 VTIR fan trigger via the Kpro is located on the a/c fan side. Its weird, but it works if you attach the fan to the a/c fan (b18c) plug
interesting, alex has his ac harness removed but iirc we did reconnect the ac harness to check and got no voltage at the plug.

its an easy fix tho the fan wiring(black with red strip) can be depinned from the old grey plug under the drivers side dash that you have to disconnect to use the conversion harness, then just pin it into the correct location on your conversion harness and your fans will work.

[mocchi]

so got my car tuned recently and was checking in my kpro. then i found

vtec window:
lower boundary 4000rpm 70kpa
upper boundary 4500rpm 90kpa

im thinking this means if i was to keep throttle low and rev all the way to 8000rpm vtec wouldnt kick in right?
isnt upper boundary supposed to be set at much lower map reading e.g. 30kpa?

thanks for input

[chargeR]

so got my car tuned recently and was checking in my kpro. then i found

vtec window:
lower boundary 4000rpm 70kpa
upper boundary 4500rpm 90kpa

im thinking this means if i was to keep throttle low and rev all the way to 8000rpm vtec wouldnt kick in right?
isnt upper boundary supposed to be set at much lower map reading e.g. 30kpa?

thanks for input

Yeah you're right, the upper boundary should be a lower number ie. it should only rev to the upper RPM limit at a low throttle opening and hence lower MAP. As it is your car will always engage VTEC at 4000.

[mocchi]

Yeah you're right, the upper boundary should be a lower number ie. it should only rev to the upper RPM limit at a low throttle opening and hence lower MAP. As it is your car will always engage VTEC at 4000.

doesnt it mean that if map doesnt read more than 70kpa, i wouldnt engage vtak ever?

[chargeR]

doesnt it mean that if map doesnt read more than 70kpa, i wouldnt engage vtak ever?

Hmm actually on second thought I've got no idea what would happen with the VTEC parameters set up like that. At worst it will always engage at the upper boundary (4500) irrespective of MAP/load. It's your car, you tell me haha, what RPM does the VTAKs arrive?

[dasicvtec]

Hey,

For the upper window, If you are 90kpa or over then only until the revs are at 4500rpm will VTEC engage.

After VTEC has engaged.

For the low window, Only until you are below 70kpa and below 4000rpm will VTEC dis-engage.

This is to reduce a 'jerk' type of power delivery when driving around the VTEC window rpm's. If you only have a switch around the VTEC 'window' then the car is quite annoying to drive around those rpms.

Hope this helps.

[neut]

How was the tune mocchi? Who did you end up going with?

[mocchi]

Hmm actually on second thought I've got no idea what would happen with the VTEC parameters set up like that. At worst it will always engage at the upper boundary (4500) irrespective of MAP/load. It's your car, you tell me haha, what RPM does the VTAKs arrive?


Hey,

For the upper window, If you are 90kpa or over then only until the revs are at 4500rpm will VTEC engage.

After VTEC has engaged.

For the low window, Only until you are below 70kpa and below 4000rpm will VTEC dis-engage.

This is to reduce a 'jerk' type of power delivery when driving around the VTEC window rpm's. If you only have a switch around the VTEC 'window' then the car is quite annoying to drive around those rpms.

Hope this helps.

the help file suggest that purpose of upper boundary is not for disengaging vtak but to activate vtak on part throttle.
so my guess was confirmed below. vtec parameters was indeed set incorrectly.


You should talk to your tuner as this is set backwards. THe upper boundry should only come on at higher load (less vacuum).

Your upper boundry is the point at which the VTEC will activate even at part throttle.



How was the tune mocchi? Who did you end up going with?

tune was alright. cbauto.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_25.gif

[mnc]

That doesnt sound right at all.

mine was

lower 5000 / 90
upper 5200 / 24

for the k24 + bp stage 2+ cams

[CIV-18C]

Ok. I'm back on the never ending hunt for knowledge and parts.

I'm about to upgrade the drivetrain of my own.

I posted the below on an American forum. But just in case anyone in Australia has already tackled this, with parts readily available to us, I thought it best to ask around in here too.

Currently:
- EK Hatchback 1998 Model
- K20A2 Conversion
- Hasport EKK1 mounts
- Mixed shafts. DC5R outers and DC2R inners

Want to upgrade to:
- Hasport EKK2 mounts
- Using DC2R subframe
- I plan on purchasing a set of Karcepts 36mm hub adaptors
- Going to use DC5R axles

Is the inners swapped for length still required? Most of the talk is about base model DC5 and not much on hubs with Karcepts hub adaptors.
My apologies if this has already been cleared up.

On a side note:
A couple of things I'm also trying to research on are headers and power steering;

- Will upgrading from EKK1 to EKK2 mounts require a new set of headers due to the angle, etc, etc.

- And, will using the DC5 power steering system on EKK2 mounts still work without using hood lifters? I'm ok with cutting the bracing underneath the hood to make it work.

Any light on the above is much appreciated. Will continue to search around for the answers on the above to if anyone does not want to clutter this thread with other information.

And just in case my explanation of the "DC5 power steering system" doesn't make sense. This is what my bay looks like.

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/markv_123/2012-02-10175424.jpg

Thanks all

Mark

[neut]

Im pretty sure you dont have a clearance problems like eg civics have. I had to cut and make a hump on mine. If anything I think you have to cut the inner skeleton abit to clear that powersteering unit. But im pretty sure ek dont have a problem with clearance. Love your ek! Looks so fresh out of the factory.

[Slow.ek1]

CIV-18C

If you are doing the subframe why not change all the hubs to dc2r (better wheels choice,also bigger brakes ect)

to shed light what headers are you running atm ???

and with running ps shouldn't change much but i dont have it so i wouldn't know lol

how long has your car been done for as i have never seen it anywhere ?!?

lol

[CIV-18C]

Im pretty sure you dont have a clearance problems like eg civics have. I had to cut and make a hump on mine. If anything I think you have to cut the inner skeleton abit to clear that powersteering unit. But im pretty sure ek dont have a problem with clearance. Love your ek! Looks so fresh out of the factory.

Thanks for the reply Neut.
You're correct. I had to cut part of the skeleton to make it clear. But I think going with the EKK2 mounts means I need the swap will "resemble the placement of an EG". So I think you're right. The hump will have to come. But I'm not too keen on it so may opt for the EP3 pulley.
Thanks for the kind words too.



CIV-18C

If you are doing the subframe why not change all the hubs to dc2r (better wheels choice,also bigger brakes ect)

to shed light what headers are you running atm ???

and with running ps shouldn't change much but i dont have it so i wouldn't know lol

how long has your car been done for as i have never seen it anywhere ?!?

lol


My hub/stud pattern were decided upon recently due to the purchase of wheels that I have been keen on for a LONG time now. And having read the reviews on Karcept hubs I'm not too hesitant to use them in order to upgrade to a 36mm spline and keep using the wheels I just bought
=)

Right now my headers are R Crew headers. Old brand so you may not have heard of it. Have recently bought J's Racing headers to upgrade that also. Not much more info I can give than that sorry as I'm not really sure what you're after ?

As above for power steering. I have a ill feeling I will need to do something aboutit due to clearance issues
=(

Car was completed in October 2006.
Hence the EKK1 mounts and old R Crew headers being used.
:)

[carayan]

Some questions on engine choice based on what i've found online..


ENGINE CHOICES
There are basically 2 types of K series, the economy versions and the performance versions.

First I will talk about the performance versions.

The following engines are performance oriented with 3 lobe Vtec on both camshafts, similar to the DOHC VTEC engines we all love:

K20A2 found in 02-04 acura RSX type-s
K20A (jdm only) found in JDM ITR and CTR, also UKDM ITR. UKDM CTR is like our K20A2 but with LSD
K24A2 found in USDM Acura TSX. Only available in America
K20Z1 found in 05+ RSX type-s
K20Z3 found in 06+ Civic SI


Ok all of these engines are basically similar. The ITR, CTR, K20Z1 and K20Z3 have better cams than the K24a2 and K20a2.

For Drag racing the K24a2 is the best platform. The K24a2 head has more meat to port out and flows similar to the others. All of the heads flow amazing and most 300whp+ motors have stock headwork still. The heads are not what needs improvement on these engines, its the induction systems that are lacking (unlike B series which lack in the head department in comparison).


Now for the Economy engines. Although they say I-vtec on them still they are quite different. They don't have any vtec on the exhaust camshaft, and on the intake camshaft its just a Two lobe system instead of three. Their vtec activates at 2200rpm and just helps with fuel ecomony. That said these are still big motors and make extremely fast cars for a budget (most can be had for $800 to $1200).

K20A3 found in 02-05 Civic SI hatchback and 02-05 RSX base model
K24A1 found in Honda CRV 02+
K24A3 found in Honda Accords
K24A4 found in Honda Accords


Does that mean our aus spec k24a3 found in the euro's isn't AS good or carry as much potential, compared to say..a Type S DC5 k20z1, just due to the 3cam/2cam lobe design?

and also, with mounts, for an ek, i was looking at running the ekk1 mounts, but i read they aren't as good as the ekk2, but i don't want to cut my chassis/convert it all to eg to use them. can anyone with experience with either give me their thoughts on them?

I'd be looking into running A/C and P/S and from what I gather custom lines and things like that are required, but the rest is pretty well documented online (wiring, ecu etc)

trying to understand this all a bit better.

[mocchi]

k24a3 is 3 lobe exh and int. that usdm info is wrong
use ekk2, eg/dc subframe and arms dont cost alot

[carayan]

k24a3 is 3 lobe exh and int. that usdm info is wrong
use ekk2, eg/dc subframe and arms dont cost alot

but with the ekk2 mounts dont you have to cut the driver sides mount/railing to place the mount?

[Vvvtec]

K24a2 = K24a3

[carayan]

K24a2 = K24a3

I see, so even wiki has it wrong?

[TbM]

I see, so even wiki has it wrong?

yeah.

[Vvvtec]

I see, so even wiki has it wrong?

yes it does

I have one in my car, shall I send you photos of the cams lol

[TbM]

but with the ekk2 mounts dont you have to cut the driver sides mount/railing to place the mount?

nope.

[Vvvtec]

I see, so even wiki has it wrong?

Here is my 2007 K24a3

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/561106_10151145223345011_388402257_n.jpg

[carayan]

nope.


Here is my 2007 K24a3

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/561106_10151145223345011_388402257_n.jpg

hmm interesting stuff.

cheers for that

[CIV-18C]

Has anyone here fitted up a K24 oil sump onto a K20 block?
Reason I want to do it is purely for clearance.

[u mad?]

Yes i have.

[CIV-18C]

Excellent.
Could you shed some light on it please.
Anything needed to know? Oil pickup? Fitment? Anything.
And is there much improvement in regards to ground clearance?
Thanks

[u mad?]

Nothing to worry about, only need to buy shorter bolts as the alloy pan is thicker so it uses longer bolts.
Eh i never measured it, i still hit on the road every now and then. Oil pump clearance is not an issue.

Also your sump will take roughly and extra 800ml or so of oil over the alloy sump, which has to be a good thing.
Also if you want to keep your flywheel covered you will need a k24 inspection plate cover as, alloy sump cover won't fit anymore.

[CIV-18C]

Duly noted.

Thank you so much!

[Snoop_gee]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1/1656129_10152762426566996_528937998_n.jpg

Okay guys need your help on my KRX.

Specs:
Street tyres 15x 6.5 rims
Stage 3 HASport Driveshafts (Discontinued - believe) Its the equivalent to level 2.9 drive-shaft. (http://www.driveshaftshop.com/import-axles/honda/civic/ef-1988-1981/honda-k-series-475hp-level-2-9-using-k20-rsx-si-intermediate-bar-w-hydraulic-clutch-left-axle-is-male-right-female)
DA integra hub\knuckle


I have noted that my passenger side drive shaft didnt properly sit inside the gearbox.
U can see about 5mm of the driveshaft sitting out.
Now i am suspecting its the C-clip. But have also ordered other things like gearbox seal and a new drive shaft nut also.
I plan to swap these old parts with the new ones being ordered.
The Drive shaft boots are intact and are NOT leaking or split/cracked or whatever.

Problems
Leaking transmission fluid not alot but small amount cause the drift shaft doesn't look to be fitting in.
There is no crunching or grinding sound when driving and the teeth on the drive shaft look to be okay.

What i want to know is ... is it the clip that needs to be replaced for it to click into the gearbox?
And has anyone had this sort of issue before.

[Vvvtec]

My mate has a set of DSS 2.9 axles, and his do exactly the samd thing, they dont sit flush with the gearbox, they stick out by a few mm.

When I saw it with my own eyes, I thought something was wrong and even made him pull the shaft out so we could try and push the shaft in again.

In the end, thats just how those shafts are made. The same small gap is also present on the drivers side between the driveshaft and the midshaft.

I know its a different situation, but thought id share.

How much fluid are you leaking? What LSD do you have? Have you tried borrowing another driveshaft and test fitting?

[Snoop_gee]

its a small thin line of transmission fluid running down from the gearbox but its enough to be noticeable and would be about few drops over 15mins or so.
LSD is the standard 1 from an Ep3 gearbox.

[mocchi]

grab ur service manual and measure/compare length of splines. compare it with oem if you have one

[Snoop_gee]

anyone notice
http://www.k20a.org/forum/

is offline and i confirmed with others its been down for a few days.

Hopefully its not hacked.

[Vvvtec]

Yup been trying to get on last two days, no go :(

Hopefully just maintainence

[EKVTIR-T]

i heard dr charles ddos them

[Vvvtec]

Prob some bseries owner

[MR.H]

just wondering how much more does a k20/k24 swap cost compared to a k20 swap?

[Vvvtec]

Same cost

+

-2.4 bottom end $100-1000
-'Frank' kit, which includes new timing chain, chain guides, headgasket etc, everything to do oem frank $400
- Kpro $900
- Tune $500-5000

Roughly

[mocchi]

$5000 tune. cot daym m8.

[Vvvtec]

Lmao baller

[cbauto]

BYP tune really gud. Worth the money.

Very quick at what they do too.....

[u mad?]

byp top notch, no pinging at all

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Do hasport offer an Accord Euro gearbox mount?

[Vvvtec]

Yep lloyd, only for eg/dc tho

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Yep lloyd, only for eg/dc tho

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU- discrimination!!!

Cheers Alex, I didn't think they did at all.

[EKVTIR-T]

k power baby


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozni8Axsidw

[TbM]

Do hasport offer an Accord Euro gearbox mount?


Yep lloyd, only for eg/dc tho

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1181780&postcount=51


Right now, you can use the EKLHB2 and the EGK3 mounts to get the engine in the EK. There are some considerations though. You still need the EG or DC subframe, rack and lower control arms. The engine sits high and if you intend on using a K24 you will need to remove some of the under hood structure.

[mocchi]

Yep lloyd, only for eg/dc tho

fukin negged mate

enjoy your red block

[TbM]

fukin negged mate

enjoy your red block

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_26.gif

[cbauto]

K swap has crossed my mind....

[Snoop_gee]

can a k20z1 head be put together with a k24a3?

[cbauto]

can a k20z1 head be put together with a k24a3?
can you post some pictures of ur car?

[Vvvtec]

can a k20z1 head be put together with a k24a3?

Yes ofcourse.

[PHO]

can you post some pictures of ur car?

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar39707_5.gif

[Snoop_gee]

can you post some pictures of ur car?


Yes ofcourse.


http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar39707_5.gif

how is that helping me guys.
*sigh.

Guys just need to know if its worth going a built k24 vs a k20/k24 frankie.

[lolmclol]

Build supercharge d series its fastest in market ATM, pm grifty for insider details

[Vvvtec]

how is that helping me guys.
*sigh.

Guys just need to know if its worth going a built k24 vs a k20/k24 frankie.

Built K24 bottom end with K20 head

K24 ftmfw

[cbauto]

Built K24 bottom end with K20 head

K24 ftmfw
13k rpm b16 better.

[Snoop_gee]

Built K24 bottom end with K20 head

K24 ftmfw


yeah i realise the k20 head flows better.
But would you think if there was alot more work done to the k24 head it can flow better than the k20 head thou ?

[TbM]

yeah i realise the k20 head flows better.
But would you think if there was alot more work done to the k24 head it can flow better than the k20 head thou ?
The prb head casting(k20a, k20a2, k20z1) has more material in it before you hit the water jackets so it can take a bigger port, so a fully ported prb head will flow better than fully ported rbb head.

[Vvvtec]

yeah i realise the k20 head flows better.
But would you think if there was alot more work done to the k24 head it can flow better than the k20 head thou ?

Depends how far you want to go snoop, what are your goals?

[Snoop_gee]

The prb head casting(k20a, k20a2, k20z1) has more material in it before you hit the water jackets so it can take a bigger port, so a fully ported prb head will flow better than fully ported rbb head.
appreciate the info. :D


Depends how far you want to go snoop, what are your goals?
I have thought about this many of times.
Though focusing more towards Street, reliable Performance in the way of acceleration.
Low and mid to be very sharp and responsive dont really care as much for top end.


And this is the list i have so far

Naturally Aspirated only
Turbo - not interested


Compression
Max suited for regular pump fuel definitely NOT E85.
with the k24 having 12:5:1 i was told would be best suited for my application street but anything higher than that wouldnt tune so well unless its E85.
Clarification and thoughts? about this...

Cam's
Q.aggressive cams does that mean stage 3-5 best suited only for a k24 head while stage 1 and 2 suited for k20 head. ?


Head
valves springs (dual - yes/no?), retainers, Valve Guides, valve stem seals
what would i need to suit aggressive N/A cams


Fuel injectors
Injector size is 1000cc excessive for a built k24?? or what would be best suited for the parts and compressive above.

Intake is going to be 80-90mm
which intake manifolds give that sharp acceleration?

Pistons and Rods suited for reliability on the street and best acceleration in the areas mention. (low and mid)
Dont even know where to start. Would really like some help.

is there anything else i have missed?

[cbauto]

cool.

[r3ckless]

Thanks for the info guys!

Looking to install a K24A3 to replace my K20Z1 when it does give way!

Interested to understand more regarding traction with the new powerplant. Seems like stock K24 with simple bolt ons are hitting 150kw atw and go up to 200kw atw. As most of you are installing in DC2/EG/EK being a much lighter chassis than the DC5, are all of you running 17inch wheels? I know some of the guys run an 18inch tyre setup to get much more affordable tyre sizes and better traction. Would prefer to keep tyre size when upgrading to K24 to a size of 255/40/17 with a high performance street tyre. Question is, will a 255 wide tyre say in a tyre like Hankook RS-3 or Advan AD08R be sufficient for traction on a K24 with power ranging from 150 - 200kw atw?

[Vvvtec]

Yes, the AD08R's are an amazing tyre. Im running 225/45/16 and they are great. 152kw atw.

[r3ckless]

Thanks Alex! I had a read of your thread on ClubITR. Intriguing!

Really quuick question; ITR gearbox with 5.1FD and stock K24. Thoughts? ATM in my GB I have the 5.1FD coupled with Accord Euro 6th gear. Curious to know if anyone has ITR gear ratios with 5.1FD and K24 torque?

[PHO]

Member tBm on here is doing a k24 swap with itr box and 5.1fd in his ek. But im pretty sure hes using 15 or 16".have a talk to him. He should be done with the swap soon. :)

5.1fd with 17" will be almost the same as alex's 4.7 on 225/45. Unless you intend on running 35 profile on the 17's

[r3ckless]

Thanks PHO.

Yeah when I go k24 will space out my fenders to get enougg room to run 255/40/17on my 9.5jj wheels to handle the power!

Worth going to E85? Or keep it to the common 98ron?

[carayan]

stick with the 98, esp if its a stock motor.

[PHO]

Is the car your primary car? I know sydney dont have a lot of E85 stations, so is there one close to you?

For N/A stock comp I wouldn't bother at all, the availability of 98 just outweighs the pros in performance (in sydney)

If it were melbourne where theres E85 in every second suburb, would just be a personal choice.

Even if you were to do 12.5cr k24, 98 is still fine. Lol

[cbauto]

If it were melbourne where theres E85 in every second suburb,
is this true?