sedan vs hatchback

[Eclipsor]

I'm mainly talking about eg's. But I'm sure the same concepts apply to ek's. I'm wondering if either has any performance advantage over the other? Is the sedan heavier?

[bennjamin]

sedan is heavier - not much - but a good 20-30kgs heavier ( i have heard !)

[z3lda]

sedan is a family car. u wanna be another magna w/exhaust on the streets?
hatchback rocks. its a little girls car that got potential

[JDM.Power]

20-30kg is a big difference!
but in my opinion the EG hatchback is the best way 2 go! small little! quick car that gets around quick!

[wynode]

Chasis wise they are quite simliar. In fact the EG sedan chasis is VERY similar to the DC2 chassis.

Apart from that there is around a 20-30 or so Kg difference. Eg sedan is about 1046Kgs. Not that heavy if you think about it.

[aimre]

BE a man, get a sedan!!

who wants to be seen in a chicks car:P

[Bownce]

Just to add to this does anyone know the difference in weight between an eg hatch and an ek?? Is it a huge amount???

[Eclipsor]

haha thanks for the replies. I like the looks of the hatch better myself. I've got one. Just thinking about upgrading to a vti or something. Deciding whether a sedan is an option.

[|N|]

sedan is pure ghey i say

[egSi]

sedan is pure ghey i say

ya right

[Terry]

sedan is real sleeper i'd say.....even u swap engine and done it up.....the chance of being pull over by cops is less then the hatch:D .....

[type one]

the hatch is where its at... sedans are for old ladies and mothers.

[panda[cRx]]

sedan is pure ghey i say

pffft who needs a back seat? :D

[aimre]

the hatch is for hairdressers.... are you one NO!!!! Get a sedan

More boot space. FOUR!!! whoa FOUR DOORS, no need to move seats to let ppl in

its safer:)

[bennjamin]

the hatch is for hairdressers.... are you one NO!!!! Get a sedan

More boot space. FOUR!!! whoa FOUR DOORS, no need to move seats to let ppl in

its safer:)


these comments are starting to run on pure bias, not fact guys.

Try to give some tech info between the two :)

to answer your original question -


I'm mainly talking about eg's. But I'm sure the same concepts apply to ek's. I'm wondering if either has any performance advantage over the other? Is the sedan heavier?

A hacthback has performance advantage in aspects over a sedan , due to less weight really. Chassis would be exactly the same , except for a hunk of metal hanging off the arse that is the sedans boot.

[panda[cRx]]

pfft if u want more seats buy a tarago.
all u need is a seat for yourself and a seat for some punani

edit: oops just saw bens post:p

[Terry]

Who say sedan is gay? I againist that!

They're cool:D .....check that out~

http://www.civicstation.com/adhoc/details.php?image_id=111&sessionid=48941a9a97636fd20bf72bb0f5d5142e

http://www.civicstation.com/adhoc/details.php?image_id=100&sessionid=48941a9a97636fd20bf72bb0f5d5142e

http://www.civicstation.com/adhoc/details.php?image_id=71&sessionid=48941a9a97636fd20bf72bb0f5d5142e

If u see one u would agree with me:D ....

[Civ_97]

yeah sedans are under-rated. nice pics Terry they phat :D

[panda[cRx]]

some gay looking pics u have there terry ;)

[merr.]

Get a coupe.. lol

[bennjamin]

Come on guys....keep it on topic and info/perspective relative to original title only !

[fusion_VTi]

haha thanks for the replies. I like the looks of the hatch better myself. I've got one. Just thinking about upgrading to a vti or something. Deciding whether a sedan is an option.

go a EG6 dude :thumbsup:

btw u still wanna buy my black bonnet. sittin in my garage if u want it

[aimre]

these comments are starting to run on pure bias, not fact guys.




THATS A FACT:

More boot space. FOUR!!! whoa FOUR DOORS, no need to move seats to let ppl in

[bennjamin]

THATS A FACT:


But the following ISNT


the hatch is for hairdressers....
...........
its saferimages/smilies/smile.gif

:D

[aimre]

more boot = more crumple zone = more time for energy of impact to dissapate = slower decellerartion = safer car :):)

[wynode]

Also....I tend to feel that the back end has less likelyhood to swing out around corners.

[Integra]

I would go both Hatch or Sedan they are both nice cars once you modify it ;)
but i rather coupe :P

[sivic]

sedan is more stable at higher speed due to a more even weight distribution. hatch tends to become a bit tail happy in higher speed corners. however, this makes it a bit better for chucking around at lower speeds.

[joyride]

sucks that we dont get EG coupes.

[armak81]

agreed with sivic... the hatch will 'feel' more nimble around tight corners whereas the sedan is more stable in high speed corners

[aimre]

agreed with sivic... the hatch will 'feel' more nimble around tight corners whereas the sedan is more stable in high speed corners

isnt wheelbase the same though?

[bennjamin]

isnt wheelbase the same though?

wheel base is apparently the same - but there is a lump of metal hanging over the rear of the back of the sedan - pulling more weight over the rear axle i suppose.

[Terry]

does anyone here ever try both of them (Sedan and Hatch)? In stock form will they behavely differently on the road? :D

[bennjamin]

does anyone here ever try both of them (Sedan and Hatch)? In stock form will they behavely differently on the road? :D

i do think, in totally stock form - the before mentioned facts are true -

hatch will be slightly quicker , more agile .
Sedan will be more stable , safer. etc.

But , once modifications come into play - both cars probably will even out and handle/perform exactly the same ( such as big swaybars , suspension etc)

[aimre]

In heavy rain, ive put my sedan sideways on a relativly long corner doing 60 in heavy rain on kmart tires. Now i got Potmzas and i really have to flick the car to get it sideways in the rain.

I got my ED hatch sideways a few times (seemed to be prone to lift of oversteer) even in dry conditions.

[wynode]

i do think, in totally stock form - the before mentioned facts are true -

hatch will be slightly quicker , more agile .
Sedan will be more stable , safer. etc.

But , once modifications come into play - both cars probably will even out and handle/perform exactly the same ( such as big swaybars , suspension etc)
Pffft

Sedan OWNS hatch around corners ;)

[[[d a n n y]]]

Pffft

Sedan OWNS hatch around corners ;)

Wyn did that make u feel better? ;)
id rather a hatch anyday over a sedan. but itf it's a coupe..

hm...:thumbsup:

[pizza_boy]

Want to revive an old topic, as planning to start a small project for city runaround car. Couldn't find any other thread comparing the 2 EG models.

I used to own 91 Breeze, which awesome, until i had a head to head accident:) I delivered pizza, done heaps of interstate moves in this car, and almost never had a problem. But I never had a go in EG sedan...:(

From this topic I understand follwoing:

Points to EG Hatch in terms of prformance are following:
1. It's a bit lighter than a sedan.
2. Better in low speed cornering

Points to EG Hatch are following:

1. More stable on high speeds + high speed cornering

In terms of other things:

1. Sedan has 4 doors + more boot space + If you got a baby sedan is better
2. Sound system in hatch would probably sound better. (Physics wyse)
3. You can move quite a big fridge in a hatch, or other big items (personal experience)
4. Parking is easier in the Hatch.
5. More ppl like hatch -> Hatch is easier to sell afterwards.


Are all my points correct? sure they are not:D

Please share the experience:)

What bout parts, are they easier to get for hatch or sedan?

thanks.

[RtN]

Got 2 ideas:

1. Coupe
2. Coupe

[pizza_boy]

Got 2 ideas:

1. Coupe
2. Coupe

I drove a VTi coupe once, didn't like it at all, felt much higher and uncomfy than a hatch... but it's wasn't in good condition at all, maybe that's why...
but anyway, topic is "sedan vs hatchback":D

p.s. can u provide any numbers, facts why coupe is better though? ;)

e.g. If we will trust redbook,

1996 Honda Civic Vti - Coupe
Kerb Weight (kg) 1029; Wheel Base (mm) 2620; Length (mm) 4450 ;Width (mm) 1695 Height (mm) 1375;

1995 Honda Civic VTi – Sedan
Kerb Weight (kg) 1062; Wheel Base (mm) 2570; Length (mm) 4450; Width (mm) 1695; Height (mm) 1390

1995 Honda Civic VTi – Hatch
Kerb Weight (kg) 1025; Wheel Base (mm) 2570; Length (mm) 4070; Width (mm) 1695; Height (mm) 1345

So coupe has longest Wheel base, lengh of coupe and sedan are the same. Height is best for Hatch.

So what bout aerodynamics? Is than Hatch body will be the best to use with da spoiler on the back?

[RtN]

well hmm just lower =] is that you p1zzaboy from CS? LOL

[JohnL]

This isn't to do specifically with a direct comparison between EG hatch and sedan, but:

All else being equal, sedan bodies are inherantly stiffer in torsion than hatch bodies (and a chassis can never be too rigid, but easily can be too floppy). This is because the hatch door aperture does nothing at all to stiffen the rear end of the chassis, in fact the opposite is the case. Think of a cardboard box with all sides enclosed, it's pretty stiff in torsion. Now cut one end panel out, it becomes very floppy in torsion. This is a close analogy for a hatch body.

The hatch door does nothing (significant) to 'close the box' because the latch just isn't stiff enough and doesn't hold the hatch door tightly in any case. In my mates EG, if I look backwards I can easily see the hatch door moving laterally relative to the chassis as the car passes over bumps and undulations (this is with a stock suspension, it would probably be even worse with stiffer springs / dampers etc).

On the other hand, sedans have a bonded in rear window that adds a lot of stiffness (half closing the end of the 'box'). However, they typically (these days) also have an aperture between the boot and passenger compartment (for carrying long loads) that is like having the other half of the end 'box panel' open, so even most sedans could easily be more rigid. At least the rear screen is there significantly stiffening the structure, but not the case with hatch bodies.

A hatch body will benefit from at the very least adding a good rear tower brace, but even better would be some style of 'X' brace to 'close the box'. My Accord (CB7) handles very noticably better with a rear tower brace and an X brace (fitted directly behind the rear seat back), and I can only assume that a hatch would benefit even more...

[JohnL]

So what bout aerodynamics? Is than Hatch body will be the best to use with da spoiler on the back?

Hatches are notoriusly bad aerodynamically compared to sedans, all else being equal of course...

Due to the abruptly truncated rear body, the laminar flow seperates in a big way as soon as the airflow reaches the end of the car, and creates a lot of turbulence behind the car. Sedans allow the flow to pass more gently downward over the rear window onto the boot lid, then the flow seperates at the boot lip. The perfect aerodynamic shape for reduced drag is a 'teardrop' shape (blunt end forward), and sedan bodies more closely resemble this than do hatch bodies.

With good airflow over the car body, the area of drag inducing turbulence behind it tends to be about as large as the area at the extreme rear end of the car, which is much smaller with a sedan than a hatch. Of course there are exceptions, like those hideous notch back Volvos, which have loss of laminar flow at the roof lip and at the boot lip.

My understanding is that rear lips don't do much if anything to reduce drag, but if properly designed do slightly reduce rear lift, but most are just bling...

[sir_egg]

IMO the weight ratio of a hatch benefits over a sedan.. looks wise they both have gr8 looks once modify but hatch screams for more attention lmaO! as for cornering n stability hatch tends to enter n exit corners more quicker whereas sedans keeps a balance of all 4 wheels but overall hatchie ftw!!

[pizza_boy]

...

Thanks for the writeup :thumbsup: Aerodynamics and mechanics are great things, was thinking to go for sedan anyway, to compare them myself by personal exp., now even more keen.

Reminds me a car we have in ex Soviet Union, kinda 2dr coupe, called Lada model 2108, there is couple around in AU, ugly as, anyway, if you jack it up on a side, you almost can't open any doors/boot, as it's body so weak that it twists:D

p.s. So same story goes to Coupe as with hatch? unless it has body stiffness improved? probs better find engineering drawings and compare...

[pizza_boy]

well hmm just lower =] is that you p1zzaboy from CS? LOL

na mate... but i had to buy CS recently, after 'driving' to work around North Ryde:D:zip:

[d15z1SUX]

do u need 4 doors or can u live with have 3 doors?
which look do u prefer?
hatch is a bit more boy racer
hatch has more exterior parts available also easier to find a bolt on exhaust
think that is about all...

[MRB18R]

I think EG's have that JDM look about them compared to the EH sedan which is more of a family car, even tho there is a 20 - 30 KG difference its alot of weight off the hatchback which therefore should make the EG abit more quicker, not much but it does help...

[D16EK1]

i have a sedan, even though on shitty tires it can still corner pretty well doing 80 with only pedders springs (in factory areas located in mitcham) I looked up on the red book, and it said that the weight of the EK sedan and the hatch back was the same and im a bit sus about that, does anyone know the true figures of weight and weight distribution on the EK sedan and hatch?

[LiKPiC]

Go the sedan!

[beeza]

Wow,I always thought of my EK sedan as being quite a bit bigger and heavier than the hatch and not the choice for the track but from this thread it seams very little seperates them,AWESOME! Great read!

[d15z1SUX]

yeh the difference is basically about 2 bags of rice lol.

[Raztaz]

go the sedans! got a stock EK1 and it can corner at prety scary speeds. also having a boot = win lol. D16EK1 are these factory areas u visit on mitcham rd or are you talking about where like Champion books are?

[jspec civic]

go the sedans....

i own a eg sedan and its awsome..

<--------

[D16EK1]

go the sedans! got a stock EK1 and it can corner at prety scary speeds. also having a boot = win lol. D16EK1 are these factory areas u visit on mitcham rd or are you talking about where like Champion books are?

nah, u know where Thornton crescent? its off rooks road, and dad owns Racing Project there so yeh, he usually takes car for spin once in a while

[85[H]accord]

going on pure looks alone, my vote goes for the EK civic sedan, post face-lift (98-00?)... best profile and proportions, the updated tail-lights work a treat (the previous looked too round & fat), and i like the small touches, like the gold badges up rear and the chrome deatiling on the grille..

as for hatches, EF FTW. so old school and small and awesome.

[D16EK1]

i did some research on the weight differences for the sedan and hatch EK, turns out that the hatch weighs 1009kg and the sedan weighs 1037kg, this makes a difference of 28kg, so that is like having a bag of rice in the boot along with 2 1.5lts of coke. for the EG, the hatch weighs 1013kg and the sedan weighs 1046kg. so from the data sourced from Redbook.com.au, it seems that both EG hatch and sedans weigh more than the EK hatch and sedan, thus if you are getting a Gli, the eg is running a D15 and the Ek has a D16, from 100cc, the EK has alot more go in it in comparison. The power difference between the EG gli and EK gli is a difference in about 20hp and 11nm of torque.

[85[H]accord]

I walked this EG VTI like 4 times, in my N14 pulsar (1.6), like a month off my P's. and it wasnt like oh maybe he didnt know, it was a guy i saw around my work that i knew from highschool, we went down to the local industrial park, you know, empty (after hours) with long straight roads as wide as a 3-lane highway.

[V-TEC_BABY]

Coupe ej8 or EM1 would blow em both away!!!

[oemjdmftw]

its funny how now, especially in america the sedan is the more popular choice. Looks far more JDM too.
Sedan has more factory options also. AWD, different spoiler options (Ferio/RTSi ducktail, JDM vti), more mudflap varieties. 5 different interiors including the highly sought after front and rear SiR bucket seats.

more aftermarket parts now too! rear roof visors, rear lips, sedan>hatch front conversion gaurds.

Ferio SiR > EG6 SiR