MIVEC vs VTEC

[Surrufus]

wondering which car would perform better:
Mitsubishi Mirage with 1.8L DOHC MIVEC eninge
Honda Civic with B18C (1.8L DOHC VTEC)
if both are tuned and modified to similar levels

[JINRAI]

VTEC > MIVEC

*thread locked* lol

[SiR CRX]

Mivec is incredibly over-rated in my opinion. If it were really good then it would have the parts support of VTEC but it doesn't and I don't think ANYTHING is available for the Mivec engines. A perfect example is putting a 6A12 Mivec engine into a Mirage. It is a big V6 engine with Mivec and even in a light Mirage a high 14 will be the best time it will do. Put a smaller K20A or H22A into an EG and it's a different story all together. Another good comparison is the new Colt vs the Jazz. Colt has a 1.5L DOHC Mivec engine while the Jazz has a 1.5L SOHC VTEC engine. The Jazz destroys the Colt on the road and this is proof enough that Mitsubishi sucks and Honda is the king ;)

[z3lda]

Sir. yes Sir.

[[R]]

I believe VTEC engines run higher compression as well.. correct me if I am wrong.

[clikz]

Agreed !
I give :honda: a :thumbsup:
and Mitsubishi a :thumbdwn:

:D

[Lokmok1234]

Right!

[SINISTR]

my first hand experience with a MIVAC motor was when I was doing Motorkhanas last year... a guy i met through those events (don't know him much at all but met him) - drives a Lance which he put in a 1.6L Mivec motor in - from the 1.5L the car used to have. it was meant to have been setup for rally/track...

but in the end i was comming into the garage about 1-2 seconds faster than him every time. And my car wasn't even vtec. Just a stock 1.6L D16A8.
So yes - i'd say Mivac isn't as GREAT as mitsi would probably want it to be - nonethe less - its good to see them trying... :)

[Surrufus]

MIVEC vs VTEC...

VTEC wins!

[Stoosh]

MIVEC no competition for VTEC!

[V8_Hero]

u kno why?
cos the transition in vtec is instant. the valve opens fully when it engages
mivec opens the valve gradually making a smooth transition
that is why there is more kick in vtec
mitsubishi does this because their engines can't handle the strain and also cos dumb honda patented it that way. other wise every other car will have vtec.

[ginganggooly]

Mivec is incredibly over-rated in my opinion. If it were really good then it would have the parts support of VTEC but it doesn't and I don't think ANYTHING is available for the Mivec engines. *How about vtec controllers that are compatible with both systems?

Think about that for a bit- That is exactly the same sort of comment i used to see coming out of all the other car related forums, only it has been levelled at hondas and vtec.

How about some of you give some technical explanations as to exactly what makes mivec better than vtec.

As far as i know they are conceptually very, very similar. I've even read snippets here and there about mitsubishi paying royalties to honda for certain parts of the system. I've always taken that with a grain of salt but you never know...

Feel free to correct me as necessary.

[steve]

mivec automatically adjusts cam timing as well as the high/low cam profile, resulting in a smoother transition in power, whereas vtec only controls the cam profile... howeva the new i-vtec is very similar to the mivec system in that it adjusts both as well, only mitsubishi had it 10 years ago... why it doesn't work better is a mystery:confused:

Its also interesting to see the new EVO will boast a turbo mivec engine, sumthin that only the aftermarket cater for, for hondas...

[[R]]

honda engines are much far more advanced than mitsu engines imho.

they're better built and seem to be far more reliable.

we always tend to hear about mitsu engines having tappet problems and cold start issues..

see these are common problems.. pros and cons will always come about.

people will have their own different opinions, but i believe that honda have better researched and developed more reliable engines.

[V8_Hero]

mate look at the sr16ve variable valve timed 1.6litre pulling i think 220hp? dun quote me
but only 400 of them made from nissan, but i think nissan paid royalties for them
anyone can make variable valve timing, vtec is so marketed and overrated, its the only thing honda can sell

[V8_Hero]

omg 4g63 engines are like the best 2.0litre production engine in the world and its been with the evos every since first production
they pull so hard and the new mivec evo engines pull an extra 20 so kilowatts so obviously there mivec has improved and mitsu still encorporate it with their cars

[[R]]

yeah.. good example:

from '03 onwards WRX's and STi's have been sporting the Varial Valve Timing too..
they just don't say or classify it as "VTEC" but it's a similar concept....

many different car manufacturers are now using this so called old "amazing" concept
which has furthermore improved the development of modern engines in today's cars.
i believe quite many european cars are sporting the varial valve concept nowadays.

[[R]]

omg 4g63 engines are like the best 2.0litre production engine in the world and its been with the evos every since first production
they pull so hard and the new mivec evo engines pull an extra 20 so kilowatts so obviously there mivec has improved and mitsu still encorporate it with their carsIMHO, i wouldnt exactly say that they were the best production engine in the 2lt class..
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they're a POS...
i actually owned an Evo just a few months ago..
4G63 engines have gone a thorough change from the first generation to current.
they've definitely improved their production with the newer version of the 4G63's..
they are still sporting the same 'tappet issues' & 'cold starting issues'...
maybe not so much with the latest model, but even the model just previous to the lastest evo..
still had some issues... but so much has been rectified over the years.
it's been such a popular choice for car enthusiasts (inspite of these minor issues)
hence why the evo has been in production for so many years... it's been developed so much..
i'm only giving you a few of the problems that have arisen...

[V8_Hero]

yeah tahts true but all engines have their faults
but really the 4g63 is best 2.0L category engine, next in line is sr20det

[[R]]

i've actually read better reviews upon the EJ20's over 4G63's...

what does everyone else think or has experienced?

it's been a great debate for quite a while...

[Surrufus]

ur forgetting honda dont make forced induction enignes and the worlds best atmo 2L is the k20a :p

[V8_Hero]

the EJ20s i feel are overrated, as different and good as they seem, their associated gear box and clutch problems jus beg to differ (cept with newer models)
and imho horizontally opposed engines mechanics find are a bitch to work on
i mean have u looked at a rex engine, omg spaghetti everywhere, wtf is that, its a 4 leg octopus

[V8_Hero]

ur forgetting honda dont make forced induction enignes and the worlds best atmo 2L is the k20a :p

omfg, what do u call the honda city turbo?

[[R]]

sorry that comparisation was for forced induced 2L engines

but yeah my previous posts were just VTEC and MIVEC

[V8_Hero]

and did u kno honda copied the double vanos system
bmw had this system way before honda had anything
honda jus poured millions of dollars into it to patent it and make it cost effective
so what u guys really are driving is rip off versions of bmw

[V8_Hero]

the reason why honda stayed NA was the owner's son died in an accident and therefore the owner decided to make safer cars = no turbo
and the K20A was

[[R]]

the EJ20s i feel are overrated, as different and good as they seem, their associated gear box and clutch problems jus beg to differ (cept with newer models)
and imho horizontally opposed engines mechanics find are a bitch to work on
i mean have u looked at a rex engine, omg spaghetti everywhere, wtf is that, its a 4 leg octopus
hahaha.. yeah i know what you mean.. but we're talking about reliably built engines.
i wasn't talking about gearbox and clutches etc.. that's just opening a whole new can of worms.. lol
along the time lines... EJ20 has withstanded a better rating worldwide over the 4G63..
but i agree about it being a b*tch to work on.. as i've owned a 4G63 and a EJ20 equipped car.
i think we should move this other portion of the topic to a different topic.
what do you think mods?

[[R]]

and did u kno honda copied the double vanos system
bmw had this system way before honda had anything
honda jus poured millions of dollars into it to patent it and make it cost effective
so what u guys really are driving is rip off versions of bmwin the end..
each idea has been taken and influenced in their own way..
guess it's up to who develops a better concept.
in this topic i still believe that Honda have provided better goods...
when comparing the N/A VTEC and N/A MIVEC engines...

[V8_Hero]

yeha but the thing with EJ20s, they are marketed way more than the 4g63s, that is why more people recognise it with the wrx than the evo.

[V8_Hero]

wondering which car would perform better:
Mitsubishi Mirage with 1.8L DOHC MIVEC eninge
Honda Civic with B18C (1.8L DOHC VTEC)
if both are tuned and modified to similar levels

wtf is a 1.8 mivec
no such thing
mitsu only made 1.6 mivec
1.6 mivec vs 1.6 vtec
mivec had more power, much better on the dyno and more reliable
tappets problem also happens with hondas aswell
jus not as loud as the mitsus

[[R]]

yeha but the thing with EJ20s, they are marketed way more than the 4g63s, that is why more people recognise it with the wrx than the evo.

that's another different issue though.. that's marketing.

those who actually have done the testing have done the testing specifically towards the two engines.

there are pros and cons as i said with both.. however in the end, from first gen to current
comparing EJ20 and 4G63.. check the reviews and results.
if i can find that full documentary i'll post it up here.....

this debate will always be about "biase" as people each have their own interpretation.

hopefully people will see statistics and results over their own opinion.


mivec had more power, much better on the dyno and more reliable
tappets problem also happens with hondas aswell
jus not as load as the mitsus
yeah problem with hondas as well.. as with any car..
however as i said, it's been a reported problem for many generations now.
still an issue.. and as you said "not as load as the mitsus".. (I assume that you mean lot)
so yeah i get what you mean..
but then therefore that conclusion leads back to the initial topic.
i believe vtec engines would perform better over the mivec due to more improvements with their engines.
the results have shown they have been more reliable in most aspects...

[V8_Hero]

']that's another different issue though.. that's marketing.

those who actually have done the testing have done the testing specifically towards the two engines.

there are pros and cons as i said with both.. however in the end, from first gen to current
comparing EJ20 and 4G63.. check the reviews and results.
if i can find that full documentary i'll post it up here.....

this debate will always be about "biase" as people each have their own interpretation.

hopefully people will see statistics and results over their own opinion.

well from what i have seen with earlier rexs, reliability factor aint great. It really depends on what the person likes. sure the rex burble might sound great but i get sick of it. Evo has handling, the engine is quite strong but crank shafts are weak when it comes to chasing big power. Personally i would rather an EVO. They are so much rarer here and you get the variants like Fq400 etc even tho they are jus pretty much aftermarket modified evos on warranty

[V8_Hero]

if SUburu was game they would compete and make rexs come with aftermarket parts and still have the car under warranty but they wont do that cos they kno there will be problems.

[Surrufus]

wtf is a 1.8 mivec
no such thing
mitsu only made 1.6 mivec
1.6 mivec vs 1.6 vtec
mivec had more power, much better on the dyno and more reliable
tappets problem also happens with hondas aswell
jus not as load as the mitsus

whoops lol
its a 1.6L MIVEC
and a 1.8L turbo
MY BAD :o

[flyhonda]

wtf is a 1.8 mivec
no such thing
mitsu only made 1.6 mivec
1.6 mivec vs 1.6 vtec
mivec had more power, much better on the dyno and more reliable
tappets problem also happens with hondas aswell
jus not as load as the mitsus


lol i was thinking to myself for a second aswell, when did mitsubishi make a 1.8mivec...
i do remember reading somewhere that the 1.6 mivec was a better built engine compared to the 1.6 vtec. but the 1.8vtec (type r engine) was the best engine from honda. dont really think the k20a was as good as the b18c IMO. but yes, back to the topic, EJ20 engines arent as strong as the 4G63 and the SR20. :D

[V8_Hero]

what would be interesting is an evo with an ej20 and a rex with 4g63
now that would be controversial

[kenshin]

Evo 9 has 2.0 MIVEC engine...

[V8_Hero]

Evo 9 has 2.0 MIVEC engine...
good one sherlock
did u read that in wheels magazine?

[Captiva_Blue]

The great thing about the EJ20 and all horizontally opposed engines is the balance inherent in their design. They don't require stuff like balance shafts which add drag to the engine thus lessening the amount of usable power, so basically they are more efficient compared with you're average inline 4. Their design also makes them more compact and gives them a lower centre of gravity which leads to better balance overall for the car (one of the main reasons subarus handle so well).They may look like crap on top and be a bitch to work on but they are a really well designed engine.. almost better than a Honda engine..oh no, did I say that :eek:

As for VTEC vs MIVEC, VTEC is great because you can sense the instant shift to the angrier cam profile making it feel like more of a performance engine but the MIVEC is a continuously variable system not an on off system so it is more adaptable to the conditions plus it incorporates timing variation as well as lift variation (plus the new ones have variable inlet tract length as well). MIVEC engines can go just as hard as VTEC engines however the philosophy behind them isn't the same. VTEC was designed as a method of making engines more powerful for a given displacement by giving them 2 power bands whereas MIVEC was designed to make engines produce medium displacement power with small displacement fuel economy.

As for aftermarket support, there is heaps of support for MIVEC in the US and Japan, just not here because we didn't really get any cars equipped with MIVEC until recently and then mostly from grey import FTOs..

[Lepperfish]

Deinatly VTEC@!!!!

[PhatSol]

wtf is a 1.8 mivec
no such thing
mitsu only made 1.6 mivec
1.6 mivec vs 1.6 vtec
mivec had more power, much better on the dyno and more reliable
tappets problem also happens with hondas aswell
jus not as loud as the mitsus

The 1.8L MIVEC hybrid motor is created by bolting a 4G92 MIVEC head onto the 4G93 DOHC block. A rather pointless conversion though since the 6A12 MIVEC is cheaper, more cubes, more cylinders, more torque, and more power :)

As for 4G92 1.6L MIVEC versus B16A 1.6L VTEC, those two motors are like brothers! Same bore, same stroke, almost same CR, almost same power. Both motors make peak torque at 7000rpm, peak power at 7500rpm (MIVEC) and 7600RPM (VTEC).

[gambate]

Evo 9 Mivec is variable timing only

[kenshin]

hey nice to see you posting again gambate...

i remember that volk rim avatar everytime i see it :)

[TYPE-ONE]

ive experienced mivec and compared to vtec, u dont feel the transition much. The only thing kool about mivec is the Roar. :D

[pornstar]

I think a long time ago this was posted on another forum, a 1.6 vtec v 1.6 mivec.

I dont know of any 1.6 MIVEC engine that outpowers the b16B, but i stand to be corrected here. I dont pay much attention to the mistubishi range, but can anyone tell me whether there is a 1.6 MIVEC that makes more power?

[pgclee]

B16b has the highest output for N/A categories in the world...if i'm wrong, tell me...hmm...am i wrong?..ehh...hmmm.....

but Mivec is not that bad...Evo MR is not bad what...Mivec with turbo..hmm...beat that...

[simon]

B16b has the highest output for N/A categories in the world...if i'm wrong, tell me...hmm...am i wrong?..ehh...hmmm.....

but Mivec is not that bad...Evo MR is not bad what...Mivec with turbo..hmm...beat that...


it does? how about S2K? NSX? M-series?

EVO MR is a 2lt engine no? nice snail too..

S2K SC beats it nicely i think :p

[tRipitaka]

i'm assuming that pgclee is comparing the b16b with the other N/A 1.6l engines around the world..

[simon]

ahhh.. that would be correct then.

what else is 1.6lt? besides OJ?

[Captiva_Blue]

B16b has the highest output for N/A categories in the world...if i'm wrong, tell me...hmm...am i wrong?..ehh...hmmm.....


do you mean the highest output per litre? if thats what you mean I think the F20c in the S2k beats it. If you mean it has the highest output of any N/A motor in the world... I think you would be wrong... but I don't think you mean that :p

[simon]

good point there, i don't have a clue what he meant as well.. maybe it is in the 1.6lt cat.

[Captiva_Blue]

if he meant in the category of 1.6 litre engines.. thats not exactly an amazing prize to claim.. think about it, most 1.6 litre engines are guttless wonders made for fuel economy, not power so claiming to be the most powerful 1.6 isn't that amazing. It's power/torque per litre that really means somthing when comparing engines. That said, all of honda's b series motors are widely considered to be amazing engines. I would have to agree with that.

[simon]

if he meant in the category of 1.6 litre engines.. thats not exactly an amazing prize to claim.. think about it, most 1.6 litre engines are guttless wonders made for fuel economy,

exactly! to have a 1.6lt pull out that much power is a great prize to claim.

it's no working with better engines that make it worth while, its working with less that makes it better.

[CONAN]

VTEC, v6mivec was quite fast
but i prefer my b16a

for that kick factor!

[PaZzMaN-R]

We all know v-tec kicks ass that why we drive hondas -=CASE CLOSED=-

[pgclee]

just try to compare a 4 cilinder 1.6 okay....name one that has 185hp...and it's N/A...
why all this V6 what ever 2 lit wanted to compare with a 1.6??...diff categories mate...then why don't you all take M3 compare it with a B16b??...M3 is Twin Vinos what...hahaha....poor 1.6, always being pick up by all those high cc's...

[HRD2BQT]

Nice topic..... as fas as the topic is concern, tho there's isnt such thing as standard 1.8MIvec (unless it a frankenstien 4G92 Mivec Head / 4G93 block). IMHO there's really no definite asnwer which one is faster between 4G92Mivec VS B16A Vtec.

I am a fan of both engine (VTEC/MIVEC), obviously people who has got B16A Vtec would claim their car is faster than the other, and same thing apply to those who has got the 4G92Mivec. This isn't about which engine put outs higher HP but rather about how good each driver is (drag/circuit). Tho there isn't much Lancer/Mirage with 4G92Mivec down under, it's really hard to see b4 our eyes which is better at every aspects of comparison. There's a 1.6 Cyborg R (Mirage) in NZ doing consistent mid - low 14's with I/H/E+JUN Cams+Re-mapped ECU (stock bottom end) on street tyres. In which I say very impressive and is comparable to OZ EK VTiR with the same type of mods.

Now, I so happen to own a CE LANCER with 6A12 V6Mivec conversion and so the fun begin. I did 14.6 @94MPH with 2.2+ 60" during last year's DRAG COMBAT. Engine is stock with buthcher type exhaust system (stock FTO unit butchered to fit the Lancer) on a freakin falken ziex street tyres - spare tyres off, backseat off as well as passenger seat. Was side by side with a DC2R with mugen CAT BACK exhuast and we both did 14.7

This year's Drag Combat a few weeks ago, I managed to clocked my personal best time of 14.3 @96.90MPH with 2.14 60" with the addition of I/H/E+65mm TB+Malpassi FPR (45psi idle) this time with a wider tyre 225/50/16 deflate to 18psi , strip interior excpet for the Dash, Rear/Centre/Front pillars and rooflining + DIY cold air duct (out of a wreck headlight). I lined up against a mate's EF Civic Hatch with B16A2 Engine (P/P Head, JUN Stage 3 Cams+Retainers+Valve Springs, ITR IM / S2K TB, I/H/E,Over size CTR Piston+ITR RODS, SARD FPR, Re-mapped ECU tuned by DynoDave to 100kw+, on M/T Slicks. I still managed on top of him on both our races. I noticed tho, that he was catching up on me on top-end and if given a longer track he would off chopped me. But i guess the torque of my car was very impressive that b4 he hits his peak power I was already a car length (roughly) ahead and I'm already up for the next shift. I realise that torque plays a much important role in drag racing than top end HP, that is just my honest opinion. But I do believe that my mate's EF is capable of breaking into 13's with its current set up - he just need to improve his lanching technique as he is hitting 98mph terminla speed.

I'm considering at selling my car to make way for a HONDA, not bcoz I think VTEC is better than MIVEC but bcoz of the aftermarket support. And definitely wants a bigger capacity vtec engine like 1.8 or 2.0 (torque reason) and start from there.

oh by the way clutch is a 3 year old hard working 5puck Brass Button (plety of bite stil) on stock fly with 5spd LSD box....and believe it or not I survived on the hurdle of driving it during peak hours.

[sirvtec]

VTEC kicks ass

[joyride]

just try to compare a 4 cilinder 1.6 okay....name one that has 185hp...and it's N/A...
you guys forgot about the 4AGE formula atlantic engine.
even thought its not a mass-production engine, it puts out 240hp from a 1.6L
http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html
:)

[[R]]

these Group A engines are just awesome.. such awesome power from just a 1.6L

the engine alone costs $15,000 i believe.

[racinghonda]

and did u kno honda copied the double vanos system
bmw had this system way before honda had anything
honda jus poured millions of dollars into it to patent it and make it cost effective
so what u guys really are driving is rip off versions of bmw

This is the 1st time I've heard of this! My understanding is that Honda is was the 1st manufacturer to incorporate a variable lift mechanism for the valves. Vanos is just BMW's name for variable cam timing where the phasing of the cam shafts is variable which means that they can adjust the overlap between the exhaust and intake valves. Double Vanos mean that there is variable cam timing on both intake and exhaust cams.

Vanos and Vtec are very different in operation. The Vanos system cannot vary the amount of lift of the valve, the Honda one can. And now with i-Vtec, Honda offers the variable cam phasing and variable lift. A lot of cars have variable valve timing now, even the humble BA Falcon has it. But not many have variable lift.

[mugeneration]

Vtec is definately better in my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if they are wrong and think MIVEC is better! hehe :D

[_CiVIC_]

VTEC!!!! I just took mum's integra TypeS for a spin.. daaaaaaaamn gotta love the vtecness hehe :D:D:D

[simon]

you guys forgot about the 4AGE formula atlantic engine.
even thought its not a mass-production engine, it puts out 240hp from a 1.6L
http://www.ae92gts.com/3a1.html
:)


true true, doesn't Honda have something similar to this?

[aznsiko]

as far as i know MIVEC is SHIT!! i took a FTO while driving my mums Nissan Pulsar.. It was hilarious... they are higly over rated... my mate has one... and yes they are SUPPOSE to be good powered cars... Mitsubishi rated them as having 150KW engines.. though they dont seem it.. lol.. my mate ripped his up infront of me and other mates.. took it to the cut out.. it doesnt have the same roar as VTEC nor does move any where close to our Hondas... in conclusion MIVEC = SHIT!!!

[[R]]

true true, doesn't Honda have something similar to this?

yeah they do.. however those are race engines.

aren't we comparing engines made from factory?

[Champ_B]

ur forgetting honda dont make forced induction enignes and the worlds best atmo 2L is the k20a :p

the F20C is the worlds best 2L NA engine around, and it has won awards for it too. although it may have been overtaken by now, not sure though.

Every manufacturer has its good and bad engines, even honda has had its not so good engines.

I know i'll prolly get flammed for this, but i dont hate MIVEC, i have been impressed by it before, just because it doesnt sound or feel fast doesnt really mean it isnt.

^ Just my 2 cents ^

[spetz]

How do you guys explain that MIVEC makes more torque per litre than VTEC?


Besides, I think you guys are missing the point.
VTEC is all that Honda has...
MIVEC is just an answer to Honda from Mitsubishi.

I drive a MIVEC 6A12 Lancer, and my friend has a B16A Jap spec EG hatch.
I admit that I have more capacity etc but I have so much other crap in the car that we probably have about 200+ kg difference. The VTEC can't keep up.

And a standard MIVEC 6A12 in a Mirage did 13.7 (no interior).

Anyway, I still believe VTEC is better in some areas, but like I said Honda has been making VTEC for so long, and that is the only "performance" oriented engines they have.
If you compare Honda's best 4 cyl and 6 cylinder, I think Mitsubishi wins (4G63T, 6G72TT)

Ok guys I hope I don't get blasted here I am just expressing an opinion.

[simon]

on the topic of Mitsubishi engines, whats the life-span of these MIVEC engines?

from what i know Mitsubishi engines have alot of troubles later on (besides the EVO series)

[spetz]

I am not really sure to be honest.
I would expect them to hold up pretty well.
I have a friend with a magna and 1.8 lancer and both have nearly 300,000km without any problems

[SiR CRX]

How do you guys explain that MIVEC makes more torque per litre than VTEC?


Besides, I think you guys are missing the point.
VTEC is all that Honda has...
MIVEC is just an answer to Honda from Mitsubishi.

I drive a MIVEC 6A12 Lancer, and my friend has a B16A Jap spec EG hatch.
I admit that I have more capacity etc but I have so much other crap in the car that we probably have about 200+ kg difference. The VTEC can't keep up.

And a standard MIVEC 6A12 in a Mirage did 13.7 (no interior).

Anyway, I still believe VTEC is better in some areas, but like I said Honda has been making VTEC for so long, and that is the only "performance" oriented engines they have.
If you compare Honda's best 4 cyl and 6 cylinder, I think Mitsubishi wins (4G63T, 6G72TT)

Ok guys I hope I don't get blasted here I am just expressing an opinion.

Any pics of your car mate?

Also did you witness this 13.7 run or was it just something you heard about? The reason I ask is because I have seen 2 6A12 powered Mirage's both run high 14's. One was here in Perth and the other was over east. Both cars had good suspension and a few other mods.

[simon]

I am not really sure to be honest.
I would expect them to hold up pretty well.
I have a friend with a magna and 1.8 lancer and both have nearly 300,000km without any problems

interesting.. maybe it's just the GTO.. damn V6 Twin Turbo..

[SiR CRX]

*How about vtec controllers that are compatible with both systems?

Think about that for a bit- That is exactly the same sort of comment i used to see coming out of all the other car related forums, only it has been levelled at hondas and vtec.

How about some of you give some technical explanations as to exactly what makes mivec better than vtec.

As far as i know they are conceptually very, very similar. I've even read snippets here and there about mitsubishi paying royalties to honda for certain parts of the system. I've always taken that with a grain of salt but you never know...

Feel free to correct me as necessary.

Mate I mean't engine parts. Air filters, exhausts and controllers don't count. The only part I have ever seen for a MIVEC engine was an ARC intake manifold and the gain was crap. I am yet to find any cams, headers or anything internal for the MIVEC engines.

[mj3610]

']I believe VTEC engines run higher compression as well.. correct me if I am wrong.

WRONG, theres 2 factors effecting engine power, that is size and compression, hondas vtec takes the third way of timing. mivec vtec tetech setech shittec is all the same thing on all cars and nearly all cars have variable valve timing elec control but the design of the engine is just different thats why a ferrari costs 200k and a civic costs 25k and they both have vvtec. So you figure it out, do you think a mitsubishi would be faster or a honda with basically same epecs? you think honda got it's name by designing the fastest donkey chariots? its just that mitsubishi engines are inferior to hondas.
:thumbsup: :honda: :thumbsup:

[spetz]

No to be honest I haven't witnessed the 13.7 pass.

But, a friend who has the same conversion did 14.3 in his lancer with just extractors and exhaust (not even a pod filter)

As far as aftermarket parts are concerned MIVEC's don't have that many but taking into consideration that MIVEC's were not exported to the US like VTEC's.
In the end they just weren't as popular. And like I mentioned before that VTEC's are so popular as its the only thing Honda has, where as with Mitsubishi their real cars are all turbo AWD's.

Don't get me wrong guys I like Honda's and I believe they make great cars, but don't compare VTEC to VVTLi and MIVEC directly (even though they are the same) but compare what Mitsubishi or other car companies have.
You have your normal Civic... you have your normal Lancer, you get VTEC Civic and MIVEC lancer, you also get AWD turbo Lancer, no such thing from Honda though is there? You get Accord... VTEC... you get twin turbo AWD Galant from Mitsubishi. You get a iVTEC CRV from Honda, you get AWD turbo AirTrek from Mitsubishi.
Ok Australia has none of these, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think though, understandably everyone on these forums is biased towards Honda's and believe VTEC is gods gift to performance when although it's good, it's not the best.
Also if you guys compare how fast a car take into account car weight, gear ratio's etc. FTO's are heavy, and having driven VTEC's I notice they have much shorter gear ratio's.

Anyway, I was also reading somewhere on the net a couple of years back about something where VTEC, MIVEC, VVTLi etc had a competition for power output and MIVEC won with 320hp atw and VTEC was at 300 or 280 (I can't remember). These were car's made from the manufacturer.

[SiR CRX]

I personally believe that VTEC is the best of its kind but I do acknowledge that there are other great cars and engines out there. The great thing about VTEC is its potential. So many parts, conversions and different things available to help it keep up with the turbo boys. I have a video of an EG with a stock K20A flogging an Evo 8 running 22psi of boost. That's not saying an Evo is crap but for a stock n/a 2L engine to blow away a world class rally car running huge boost is pretty special. I like the idea of owning a small n/a 4 clylinder engine that is superb quality and has heaps of potential to match it with the best. Just my opinion though.

[HRD2BQT]

as far as i know MIVEC is SHIT!! i took a FTO while driving my mums Nissan Pulsar.. It was hilarious... they are higly over rated... my mate has one... and yes they are SUPPOSE to be good powered cars... Mitsubishi rated them as having 150KW engines.. though they dont seem it.. lol.. my mate ripped his up infront of me and other mates.. took it to the cut out.. it doesnt have the same roar as VTEC nor does move any where close to our Hondas... in conclusion MIVEC = SHIT!!!

Hahahahahaha.....so typical VTEC lover!!!!
Is that your car on your avatar??


And a standard MIVEC 6A12 in a Mirage did 13.7 (no interior).

spetz
this is not stock trust me.....the guy re-post on the thread and it say's It has got HALTECH ECU, HeavyDuty Clutch, Strip Interior, on semi's. Still pretty damn quick to be honest.

I cud be looking at high 13's if my car was a mirage with drastic weight reduction :)

at the moment, I'm pretty please with 14.3 :) you should take you car at d strip one day to find our ur potential.

[HRD2BQT]

If given the opportunity that VTEC equipped car and MIVEC equipped car has got the same type of mods like the usual I/H/E+CAMS+ECU+Heavy Duty Clutch / Lightweight Flywheel - I'm sure Mivec can keep up and give good run.

[spetz]

I think considering a 2.0 litre MIVEC from 1994 has more torque than a 2.0 K20A VTEC from today, this goes to say something...
A B16A has 150nm... which is nothing! Your 1.8 lancer has more torque than that.
HRD2BQT, I do want to put my car on the strip and probably will fairly shortly but like I told you before I am not expecting quick times as I am not taking anything out of the car, will have a full tank of fuel and not don't anything to camber or deflating tyres. I want to know what my car actually does, not what it can do if I take everything out.
I am sure if I start taking EVERYTHING out I can do 13s... but what good is that to know?

I think Honda's have the advantage of lighter cars (EG Civic) with for example a 6 speed gearbox from DC5R.

As far as a EG flogging an Evo 8... you honda boys believe what you want ;)

But yeah Sir CRX, I agree with you that a quick 4 cyl non turbo FWD car is ultra cool, and so long as this was drivable (low end power) I would love something like that, and yes I admit Honda is the manufacturer that you can "easily" make this possible with.

PS. HRD2BQT, me and my friend with the B16A had a race... his car is nowhere near mine. By the end of first he is well behind. Top end my car will completely destroy his. Although to be honest I think his car is not running as quick as it should??? VTEC kicks in at 5000rpm, gives you a push but cut out is at 7500rpm?

[flyhonda]

i was reading some of the threads in the FTO forums and they are more humble compared to our forum... they know the type r will cain them and they respect the power and handling the honda possesses. and most of the replies i read in here is "vtecs the best, mivec sucks" and blah blah..
i think respect here is more of an issue than whos the best.
yes i love my little EG, stock, dumped with some 17s. looks awesome, and the sohc vtec is great at times, wish i could afford a transplant to dohc though :( but as spetz has said, the hondas have more aftermarket backup purely because of VTEC being brought in the US market. Ask an boyracer in America about Mivec and im sure he would be scratching his head. lol
unbelievely, V8_hero has some valid points...and i thought he was only stirring at first.. :?
Just my two cents worth..i'll shutup now..hehe

[edw-R]

Vtec all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pornstar]

So after 7 pages... anyone able to name a production 1.6 mivec that is more powerful than the b16b?

[HRD2BQT]

Any pics of your car mate?

Also did you witness this 13.7 run or was it just something you heard about? The reason I ask is because I have seen 2 6A12 powered Mirage's both run high 14's. One was here in Perth and the other was over east. Both cars had good suspension and a few other mods.

Isn't mid - high 14's the average 1/4 mile times for stock OZ DC2R / DC5R? Driver dependent of course. Some may agree some may argue with this.

So I guess it just prove that a Lancer with 6A12 V6 Mivec is a good match up with your average ITR's. Stock manual FTO Mivec can do high 14's - low 15's to be honest.

Some may argue with me with this, but a manual FTO mivec can outperform any stock Civic / Integra VTiR anytime of the day. But of course ITR's r a different story. Though I dont drive a FTO, I have as much respect for this car as ITR's. They have similar potential but it's just unlcuky MIVEC dont get as much aftermarket support like the VTEC.

That's why if ever I get to sell my car, my next car gotta have VTEC in it. Not bcoz VTEC is faster but bcoz of the ability to make it go faster due to aftermarket support. Amongst my group of friends,I am d only one who doesn't have VTEC equipped car (BADHBT, OLM02R, ORACER,efren) this people makes me jealous.

I love both MIVEC and VTEC!!!

[spetz]

flyhonda, you are right, no one in the US knows what MIVEC is.
I went onto US based lancer forums asking what I should to performance wise and told them the engine is a MIVEC from an FTO.
The replies I got were "what is FTO?"

But you are right, people should respect other cars on the road. In the end of the day it's not VTEC or MIVEC which is faster, its the one with more money spent on it.

As far as more powerfull 1.6 production cars are concerned, why is this so much of an issue? 1.6 MIVEC makes 131 kw and 168 nm of torque. A B18C7 DC2R engine makes 141 kw and 172nm of torque. Compare the two, and I think it is the VTEC which is pathetic not the MIVEC. Is a B16B more torque'y than a 1.6 MIVEC? I doubt it. Yes, a B16B equiped car will be quicker I think than a MIVEC car, but make ALL THINGS equal (weight, gear ratio's, driver etc) And I think VTEC will have a nasty surprise

[spetz]

How many kw atw doe DC5R and DC2R make?
My standard 6A12 MIVEC (exhaust only) did 112.4kw at the front wheels. This is a 1994 engine.

But with all honesty I would have to say I would pick a VTEC over a MIVEC none the less. And like HRD2BQT said it's mainly due to aftermarket parts.

[HRD2BQT]

Stock DC2R should at least get 90-95kw atw
Stock DC5R should at least get 95-100kw atw

that's base on AUTO SALON dynoshootout on 4th gear.

[aaronng]

What about the 1.6L engine in the Nissan Pulsar VZ R N1? It has 197 hp (146.9 kW) from the factory. (just to add a little fuel to the fire)

[_CiVIC_]

i wonder what a typeS would have at the wheels since they have 154kw at the motor :)

[spetz]

Is Type S better than Type R?

[aaronng]

It's different. Type R, the R stands for Racing. The body is lightened, thinner windscreen, racing bucket seats and such. With the Type S, the S stands for Sport. The interior is more comfy (with leather all around), and the suspension is probably a little bit softer for comfort.

[V8_Hero]

here we go boiz
the infamous nissan sr16vvl
the blue tops made 175hp while the red tops N1 versions made 197hp :thumbsup:

http://www.billzilla.org/sr16vvl.jpg

[pornstar]

[/Quote]

As far as more powerfull 1.6 production cars are concerned, why is this so much of an issue? 1.6 MIVEC makes 131 kw and 168 nm of torque. A B18C7 DC2R engine makes 141 kw and 172nm of torque. Compare the two, and I think it is the VTEC which is pathetic not the MIVEC. Is a B16B more torque'y than a 1.6 MIVEC? I doubt it. Yes, a B16B equiped car will be quicker I think than a MIVEC car, but make ALL THINGS equal (weight, gear ratio's, driver etc) And I think VTEC will have a nasty surprise[/QUOTE]


which 1.6 mivec makes that?

[PhatSol]

A B16A has 150nm... which is nothing! Your 1.8 lancer has more torque than that.

Ohh wow, a 1.8L engine has more torque than a 1.6L engine? Never would have guessed that. But have a look at it, the 4G93 only makes an extra 10nm from a 200cc capacity advantage. And then when you consider the B16A is pushing through a much shorter final drive.... Torque at the wheels the B16A will be in front due to the shorter gear ratio.

[spetz]

Considering this is a SOHC 1.8 lancer you get on the streets... no twin cams, no tricky valve work... no nothing...
And considering a the 4G92 MIVEC with the same capacity as the B16A makes MORE torque than the 1.8...

Anyway PhatSol, if you notice my posts above I said ALL THINGS BEING equal and I stated gear ratios as one of them. And there is no need to add sarcasm to posts, this is a discussion not a childish arguement.

Pornstar it's the 4G92 MIVEC, 131kw and 168nm of torque. Which also makes more torque per litre than any VTEC Honda engine (I have to admit though I don't know the torque rating for the S2000 and JDM DC5R). Same with the 6A12 MIVEC and I am sure it's the same deal with the 6G72 MIVEC

I think Honda people shouldn't automatically dismiss anything but that isn't VTEC

[pornstar]

131kws from a 1.6 well i stand corrected, i thought the B16B outpowered anything mitsubishi...

**** mitsubishi owns, ima sell my honda and get a 4g92MIVEC lancer

[|N|]

Considering this is a SOHC 1.8 lancer you get on the streets... no twin cams, no tricky valve work... no nothing...
And considering a the 4G92 MIVEC with the same capacity as the B16A makes MORE torque than the 1.8...

Anyway PhatSol, if you notice my posts above I said ALL THINGS BEING equal and I stated gear ratios as one of them. And there is no need to add sarcasm to posts, this is a discussion not a childish arguement.

Pornstar it's the 4G92 MIVEC, 131kw and 168nm of torque. Which also makes more torque per litre than any VTEC Honda engine (I have to admit though I don't know the torque rating for the S2000 and JDM DC5R). Same with the 6A12 MIVEC and I am sure it's the same deal with the 6G72 MIVEC

I think Honda people shouldn't automatically dismiss anything but that isn't VTEC

b16a2 has 170Nm

[wynode]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but lets also take into account that gearing plays a big role in keeping these peaky engines in their power band.

[spetz]

What car is a B16A2 from? Civic coupe VTi-R?
To my understanding they only had 150nm and 118kw? This is the AUDM engine isn't it?

How many kw does a B16B have?

[SiR]

How many kw does a B16B have?

136kW (185PS)

[pornstar]

does that mean that the VTEC overpowers the MIVEC? Goddamn, ima sell my MIVEC powered lancer and go back to my honda VTEC

[spetz]

My MIVEC powered lancer does 150 kw, and has torque comparable to an H22A...
God damn! I don't even need to rev into MIVEC zone to beat B16A's :wave:

[MR-VTEC]

My MIVEC powered lancer does 150 kw, and has torque comparable to an H22A...
God damn! I don't even need to rev into MIVEC zone to beat B16A's :wave:

yeah that maybe so but you also have two extra cylinders and almost half a litre extra displacement:rolleyes:

[spetz]

Ok MR VTEC I'll give you that one...
But I also have over 200kg extra weight over an EG hatch...

[wynode]

Are we talking about the engine now or the engine AND the car together ?

[Vtec_inside]

mivec is full of shit over rated. if u put the same amount of money time an effort into a vtec honda in comparison to mivec, it will hose a mivec hands down. I come from malaysia and both mitsubish and honda ar very popular. But with personal experience i think vtec is the way if ur in N/A four cyclinda.

[CRX-Ando]

I won't even begin to peruse all the responses thus far so please forgive any ignorance on my behalf if I've touched on a matter previously mentioned...common sense should dictate the replies these type of topics instigate on here...I adore my Honda to death but then again I pity those fools whom believe VTEC is all that and is the equivalent of N/A boost, it really does give us a bad name...I have no qualms with any manufacturer as they all have specific goals regarding what vehicles they produce whether its sports-oriented, family-directed, comfort, boosted or N/A...Honda's aim is to produce cars of quality and extracting maximum potential by staying naturally aspirated so to question or compare them to the turbo rides of other manufacturers would be plain naive...believe me, if Honda decided to tread the boosted path, other manufacturers would take note and a sense of nervousness would come over them...


God damn! I don't even need to rev into MIVEC zone to beat B16A's :wave:
If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate...

[MR-VTEC]

Honda's aim is to produce cars of quality and extracting maximum potential by staying naturally aspirated so to question or compare them to the turbo rides of other manufacturers would be plain naive...believe me



God damn! I don't even need to rev into MIVEC zone to beat B16A's :wave:

If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate...

For someone who tries so hard to write so academically and present there post to such a high degree of perfection you contradict yourself nicely......
you say that to compare a n/a car to a turbo car is naive, yet you take it upon yourself to say to spetz (whos car is n/a) that 'If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate' when your car is in fact boosted.:rolleyes:

GOOD ONE:rolleyes: :thumbsup:

[Slugoid]

MIVEC is not overrated....epecially when you put MIVEC into the 4G63 engine (ala EvoIX) :D

Ohhhh yeah, MIVEC power :p

[CRX-Ando]

For someone who tries so hard to write so academically and present there post to such a high degree of perfection you contradict yourself nicely......
you say that to compare a n/a car to a turbo car is naive, yet you take it upon yourself to say to spetz (whos car is n/a) that 'If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate' when your car is in fact boosted.:rolleyes:

GOOD ONE:rolleyes: :thumbsup:

Once again, my knowledge of Mr Spetz's ride is that it is MIVEC & nothing else so this was purely deducted from that, further mods are unknown to me as I did initially inform that I hadn't read all the previous posts in this topic...and believe me mate, I don't go out of my way to use "perceived" intelligent vocab...

[MR-VTEC]

Once again, my knowledge of Mr Spetz's ride is that it is MIVEC & nothing else so this was purely deducted from that, further mods are unknown to me as I did initially inform that I hadn't read all the previous posts in this topic...and believe me mate, I don't go out of my way to use "perceived" intelligent vocab...

'my knowledge of Mr Spetz's ride is that it is MIVEC & nothing else so this was purely deducted from that'
what was deducted from what:confused: i already stated that it was n/a. the whole point that i was getting at was that you said it would be naive to compare a turbo car to an n/a car then you went on to compare your boosted crx to spetz's n/a lancer:rolleyes:

as for your stint about how you dont go out of your way to use intelligent vocab, my opinion and many others opinion is that you do, but whatever man im not here to argue with you about that.;)

[CRX-Ando]

It was deducted from his post depicting 150kW...apologies as I didn't feel the desire the read the prior 9 or so pages...all is good as I have no issues with anyone...I too am not here to cause debates/stir amongst fellow forumers but in the face of the endless amount of crap that is evidenced on forums these days, the way I post should no way be the topic of discussion...inform me where I've crossed the line in regards to forum rules & I'll cease my contribution on here...if not, I'll continue on...we all have our own opinions & I regard yours as such...peace out :)

[spetz]

Thanks MR-VTEC ;)

And CRX-Ando... you have a boosted VTEC.
Put a Evo IX MIVEC turbo engine in my car.
We'll see who has the better of who :)

Although I don't think comparing VTEC to turbo is so "naive".
I like to think that both a turbo and VTEC is a gimmick to make a small capacity engine go quick. So they are somehow comparable in my opinion.

[CRX-Ando]

And CRX-Ando... you have a boosted VTEC.
Put a Evo IX MIVEC turbo engine in my car.
We'll see who has the better of who :)
I could well follow up with a [insert boosted NSX engine here] in my CRX reply but it accomplishes nothing...I think after 10 pages, most of us are somewhat over it...VTEC this...MIVEC that...both marvels in their own right so let's leave it as that...if it runs to my satisfaction and serves my needs whether boosted or N/A, I'd be happy with either of them to reside in my garage...

[SpOOn-FED]

no way manz
u know what your a panzy!
i wouldnt be satisfied with wat i got unless i know that iv beaten every single car that i could possibly take onnn!!!!!
(joking on the panzy comment pleaze dun hurt me!!!!)
but yer its true its sensless toking bout mivec vS vtec because itl keep going onn and onn and onnn and onn and on! its useless
but if u ask me i think both of them are evenly matched but with the mivec having jus a lil bit more torque (saying this only because the only mivec i know is in the FTO)

[Da1nONLY]

no way manz
u know what your a panzy!
i wouldnt be satisfied with wat i got unless i know that iv beaten every single car that i could possibly take onnn!!!!!
(joking on the panzy comment pleaze dun hurt me!!!!)
but yer its true its sensless toking bout mivec vS vtec because itl keep going onn and onn and onnn and onn and on! its useless
but if u ask me i think both of them are evenly matched but with the mivec having jus a lil bit more torque (saying this only because the only mivec i know is in the FTO)

Reason why FTO has more torque is because they have an extra 2 more cylinders and a 0.2 (10%) more litres on top of the dc2r's =). Now if FTO was running only on 4cylinders with MIVEC... wonder what would happen =)....

[HRD2BQT]

who in here is up for a test drive in my car? too many shit going around in this thread. Too many highly technical responses base on what you read or hear from another source. The problem here is, people tend to jump into conclusion all the time that MIVEC is rubbish when they haven't even driven a mivec car all their life or perhaps some user here don't even have a VTEC. Fair enough, VTEC has a welln known reputation when it comes to Natural Aspiration - but don't you guys ever think it's only bcoz of the aftermarket support they get from a well know company? (lucky bastard :) :) )

The engine design is relatively similar to one another, so I would assum that a mivec car would also respond well to a similar modifications your average VTEC has got. I am a non-conformist, I love my MIVEC that I wouldn't even swap it over normal B16's or B18's but I want my next car tobe a honda, equipped with JAPSPEC B18C-R - my car already ran mid 14's in stock trim. Only Stock ITR's can clock this time. What does that mean? They go fairly quick right? It' just bad that it wud cost me an arm and a leg to modify

C'mon guys, let stop being bias for once in our life. I must admit I'm a VTEC lover myself and thats d reason why I check out some cool honda base forum such as this and honda-tech etc etc. I got so much respect for this engine.... I'm surrounded with VTEC in my circle of friends

[sesshoumaru]

there's no reason why we can't or shouldn't compare factory turbo and factory N/A cars...

that's part of the fun.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[spetz]

We'll have to agree to disagree ;)

And CRX-Ando, don't make me put a 6G72TT into my lancer! with the AWD drivetrain... BUAHAHAH (I wish anyway)

[crxzzR]

guy's just to let u know i think one of the best variable valve timing systems around is BMW and their Dual VANOS which allows a wider duration than any other company around..
they say it is infinitely variable.. but they do have a min and max point.. but unlike vtec which seems to have only 2 profiles.. VANOS allows different profiles at different ranges..

[spetz]

I think this has been covered.
And although double VANOS has variable timing it doesn't have variable lift.
Besides, i-VTEC has variable timing and lift.

[aaronng]

Double vanos is VTC, but unlike VTC which is only on the intake side, Double VANOS is on both intake and exhaust (hence Double). This is similar to the Toyota Altezza with the 3S-GE 2L 4-cyl 206hp engine, which has VVT on both intake and exhaust (no "i" though). With BMW, they don't need a 2nd cam profile, because their Double VANOS engines are large capacity in the first place, and they are polished, lightened and balanced from the factory. So just VANOS is enough to provide low RPM torque.

[PhatSol]

What car is a B16A2 from? Civic coupe VTi-R?
To my understanding they only had 150nm and 118kw? This is the AUDM engine isn't it?

How many kw does a B16B have?

What is the point of comparing the outputs of a JDM 4G92 MIVEC with an AUDM B16A2? Lower the comperession of the 4G92 MIVEC to run on Australian 96 octane premium like the B16A2 and then do the comparison.

[TheKillerAnt]

ive driven a tiptronic fto 2.0 v6 mivec and believe me it was respectable but not impressive. Granted i would have gotten more punch out of a manual version but vtec integra's seem much more ANGRY!!!
and for those that still doubt vtec's performance, look at an fto vs integra type R and you will see that TypeR is faster and utilyzes less cc and two pistons less also!!!!
-go the honda's-

[PhatSol]

look at an fto vs integra type R and you will see that TypeR is faster and utilyzes less cc and two pistons less also!!!!
-go the honda's-

DC2R versus GPX/GPvR is not a very fair comparison considering the fto is over 100kg heavier!

[SpOOn-FED]

hey thats true also but still
you gota look at it another way the FTO has 200cc advantage as well as two extra pistons....
youd think that it would be a lil bit more fair....?(wouldnt it?)
but i had an FTO and now i own a DC5R
dont rule out the FTO or the mivec i realy havto admit i think they are very evenly matched jus a lil less weight for the FTO and you would have and VTEC ass kicking machine!...
but i leane towards the HONDA VTEC built engines rather than the mitsubishi even though my FTO was a 1999 model (very rare) i still had problems with it...for some reason everytime i floord the gas pedal seriouse smoke came out of it and not the good kind.......
and everytime i tried fixing it nothing would work so i gave up
it jus somethign about the V6 packages that mitsubishi offers that raises allot of questions......HONDA doesnt get as many complaints............
but the V6 mivec engine of the FTO is very compettative when kept in 100% tip top shape.........it competed i think i few years ago in the JGTC in the GT300 class and was actually very competative and could even keep up with the GT500 cars but im not sure if dey still compete nows.....
anyone know?

[pgclee]

ya ya ya...what so ever...take your FTO and race with an ITR...then we'll talk...what ever 200cc advantages or 200kg advantages..no point argue over it...if any FTO can show the freaking Drag time Slip doing a 14.00sec or lower, Show it!...but for a ITR to Do a 14.00sec...i've seen it...but does anybody come through a FTO doing that?...hmmm...

anyway...i have nothing against Mivew or what so ever...but just that Talk is nothing...FTO driver out there, race with a ITR...and then tell us the result...we would love to hear from it...

Although i myself drving a Vtec, but still, i've been won by a 1.8Mivec before...believe it or not, is up to you...i guess Mivec isn't slow afterall...but thats when my car was standard...hehehe...

anyway..keep it in our league...we won't wanna compare some GT cars over our road cars...just street style dude...hehehe...

lastly, Vtec still Roars...haha...

[SpOOn-FED]

ya ya ya...what so ever...take your FTO and race with an ITR...then we'll talk...what ever 200cc advantages or 200kg advantages..no point argue over it...if any FTO can show the freaking Drag time Slip doing a 14.00sec or lower, Show it!...but for a ITR to Do a 14.00sec...i've seen it...but does anybody come through a FTO doing that?...hmmm...

anyway...i have nothing against Mivew or what so ever...but just that Talk is nothing...FTO driver out there, race with a ITR...and then tell us the result...we would love to hear from it...

Although i myself drving a Vtec, but still, i've been won by a 1.8Mivec before...believe it or not, is up to you...i guess Mivec isn't slow afterall...but thats when my car was standard...hehehe...

anyway..keep it in our league...we won't wanna compare some GT cars over our road cars...just street style dude...hehehe...

lastly, Vtec still Roars...haha...

bro chillax im jus referin to the reliability of that engine geez tok bout hot air y dun u chill for a bit
and man dun judge a car unless youv driven it. you bad mouthin a car dat u dun evn know bout, get it rite chillax a lil and stop shooting your mouth like u a nissan driver aight........

[wynode]

Lets keep this to constructive criticism guys.....or else this thread is going to have to get locked.

This is a warning!

[pgclee]

Opps...yea.."i've only driven my crappy Civic my whole life"...damn...sad for me...isn't it...HAHahahaha....

[nickiipoohz]

well from my personal experience, ive got a H22 in my accord with no mods watsoeva... meaning no CAI, no zorst and i bet a mivec FTO. so hhmmmmmm so wouldnt that mean VTEC is better?

[flyhonda]

well from my personal experience, ive got a H22 in my accord with no mods watsoeva... meaning no CAI, no zorst and i bet a mivec FTO. so hhmmmmmm so wouldnt that mean VTEC is better?

no offence or anything, but thats like saying i'll buy a FTO and put a EVO motor in it with no mods and drag you. engine conversions are in a different league altogether.


Although i myself drving a Vtec, but still, i've been won by a 1.8Mivec before...believe it or not, is up to you...i guess Mivec isn't slow afterall...but thats when my car was standard...hehehe...

i dont think they have 1.8l mivecs. unless you dragged a hybrid?

i think this has got out of hand now..haha I dont think the FTO was made to beat the ITR at all..so i dont see the point in bagging the FTO against Integras best. It cant be as bad as some of you guys put it, if it could win the 1994 Japan car of the year.

[ATSEK4]

of course VTEC man. No more copy cat.

[CTR Coupe]

I’m closing this thread everything that needs to be said has been said and now its just descending into talk about street racing.

*LOCKED*