Strengthening The f22a

[B|ade]

Hey guys,

How's it going?

I was wondering if someone here could fill me in with whats involved in strengthening an engine.

I got a quote from a company over in America to get pistons (at 8.8:1, Crower billet rods and rings for $1,112.54 (American) plus shipping (which is something like $110 American).

Are they the only components I'd need to strengthen the engine?

How bout camshafts, etc, etc? What do they actually do?

Poid, I know you've got answers for me man!

I was expecting to fork out an easy 8 grand to get my engine rebuilt and strengthened but now it looks like itll probably only cost me about 5!

[poid]

LoL i have some answers mate, i need some myself on this subject ;)

Basically to build the block for some higher boost, yeh thats what you will need. You can also get pistons and rods from Arias and Eagle respectively as another option to consider (Crower make very nice products though :) ). You could look at bumping compression up a little to say 9 or 9.1:1, even up to 9.5:1 if you're really wanting to do it. That'll give you a little more bottom end when not in boost and just needs to be tuned well to not have any problems.

Camshafts are in the head, and tell the valves when to open and close. The cams should be fine unless you plan on making the engine rev higher, when new cams and a new valvetrain are needed.

The only other thing for the block is to sleeve it. This is what the expensive bit is (something like $3k i believe). However the F series are sleeves are Iron so you should be able to get more power than you can handle before you need to sleeve it.

Oh you may want to check all the seals etc on the engine to make sure they are OK. Even replace them.

Oh dont forget to include duty on that stuff...customs will almost certainly pick it up

[B|ade]

Yeah you're probably right man

Ok cool.

Yeah, I'm thinking of getting the engine totally rebuilt at the same time and then strengthened if you know what I mean. Making sure everythings ok and then putting in the strengthening components.

I thought higher compression was worse for a turbocharged engine?

Thanks for your help man

[poid]

higher compression just means the margin for error in the tuning is less. Basically when turbocharging you are raising the effective compression, so if you start from a higher base it like tuning for higher boost. Less margin for error but more power to be had. That said 9 or 9.5:1 isnt that high at all, and if i was to build my block i'd consider it so thatoff boost the car goes better than stock as well.

Yep got ya, thats the way to do it...get it all done so there are no worries later :)

How's the beast going anyway?

[B|ade]

Good man good

Im looking at get the Hondata s200 unit cause I had to James about it on Sunday at the Dyno Day and it looks really really good (better than the Unichip I have atm neway).

As for that, I'm just saving money for an exhaust (atm its only 2 1/4" cat back and a 2.5" dump pipe) so I'm looking at making that 3" turbo back, hi flow cat and 2.5" cat back. Atm, the exhaust is holding the turbo back quite alot so I should see a definite performance increase after that.

After the exhaust is done, I'm gonna pick up the f22a gearbox and bide my time until June (save some more money as well) and then do the auto to manual conversion and while its in there, Jim and the boys at Croydon can fit and tune the Hondata unit (they've just become licensed distributors in Australia).

With the new gearbox I should be able to run 10 pouds of boost or so, which should also see a combined power increase combined with the exhaust and the Hondata unit as well.

How are your plans coming along man?

[B|ade]

Btw, with the manual man - do you reckon I should get it strengthened as well?

Croydon seem to think that it should be fine as standard (and another guy I spoke to on Sunday said the stock f22a manual transmission is good for 350hp) but I will get a heavy duty clutch or something.

You think that sounds right man?

[poid]

i keep forgetting you dont even have a proper exhaust yet! That should help you free up quite a bit of extra horsepower mate. The Hondata does a good job...i would have got it if it wasnt 2k for my car (since i am OBD2) so i'm trying to do the same with a chipped OBD1 ECU and some free tuning software. We'll see how that goes :)

I tend to agree with Croydon's views about the gearbox, i reckon it should be fine for your setup. I've heard a lot of auto boxes giving up but very few manual boxes. I certainly have no plans to strengthen mine, just to upgrade the clutch.

After a 6 month period of doing nothing due to other commitments my plans are starting to come along again. The other day i installed all the wiring for my boost controller and gauges, as well as the oil pressure sender so i dont have to do that later and can now tee off the oil feed from the firewall. I have an intercooler and ECU bits in the mail from the US and a about to get a clutch and fuel pressure regulator in the next week. Prolly some injectors as well.

So yeh, i've started to get a move on and am hopfeul of having it done within a couple of months. Not a whole lot of parts left to get now.

[B|ade]

Awesome man

What turbo have you got again?

Yeah man the Hondata ends up being about 2k for me as well with the boost unit u hafta get, etc, etc.

But I have heard awesome things about em and aparently the unichip isnt that good although it is doing its job perfectly so i dunno!

[poid]

i have a GT28 waiting to go on, we'll see how it goes!

did you get a/f ratio readings when you were on the dyno? If those are good, and the car is driving fine suggests to me that its doing a good job. What do Croydon have to say about getting Hondata versus the Unichip?

[CHU85]

whens ur car gonna be ready poid?
mines getting rebuilt at the moment with all the goodies.
CP pistons, eagle rods, crower cams, arp bits ect.....
and new turbo setup 770hp t37!!!
If u are sleeving the block, it shouldn't cost u anything over 1k. My whole engine is getting balanced, honed,bored, and sleeved. Go to a reputable engineering place and u'll have no problems.
Only bout 1 month to go.

[poid]

couple of months for me, but i'm not getting the engine built just boosting stock block for now. My constraint is money at the moment.

I'd love to know who you are using for the sleeving job, hell the whole engine build :)

[A'PEXi]

where are you getting the work done chu?

[B|ade]

Hey man

A/F ratio on the dyno was low and the car was running abit too rich, which DynoDave said was probably caused by the restrictive exhaust.

I haven't spoken to Jim yet about the Hondata but the couple of people I did speak to on Sunday said the Unichip used a different system or something to determine air/fuel ratios (abit too complicated for me anyway) and that the way the Unichip does it isn't as good as the way, say Hondata, for example, does it!

Chu man, what hp you wanna get outta it at the end of it all?

Looks like poids doing exactly what I'm doing!

[poid]

well i dont know how the Unichip does it, but Hondata does it exactly the same as the stock Honda ECU's do, and the same as basically every aftermarket ECU does.

The ECU doesnt determine the A/F ratio at all, it just looks up a table to see how much fuel to dump in based on RPM and the MAP sensor reading (mainly). I'm assuming the Unichip does it that way also, but dunno what its maps are like. Changing the exhaust should definitely lean you out though, but you'll need a tune afterwards just to be sure you are OK.

You used a T28 didnt you?

[B|ade]

Yea gt28 ball bearing man

Rated at 450 hp :P

[CHU85]

When i get my block done i'll tell u all about it. i'm hoping for about 200kwatw with the t3 and 450 injectors and microshit. The t37 (gt35 wheels with small exhaust and 0.7front) hoping for alot more.
My block is being done at Bryants engineering in brissie here that have been around for 20odd years.
To do it properly, just shop around using aussie builders not all the brand names that the yanks do.