LPG on a civic

[timmya2]

has it been done?

what would be the major obstacles in converting a 1.3 breeze engine to take LPG.

pros and cons

and why people arent doing it

cheers

[bennjamin]

initial cost. And , being a carb'd car it will be quite more expensive to convert to LPG compared to EFI ( IMO , correct me !)
Also , converting to LPG "loses" 10-15% of your cars peak power apparently.
BUT , the inital $1500+ will pay itself off over 1 or 2 years for sure.

[MoDCoN]

maybe been done... dunno why tho...
cons [major] power and torque losses... which arent good for a lil civic... u could prolly push it faster once converted...

pros... hmmm reduced costs? but this is overtaken by the lack of power... civics are already fuel efficient dont need lpg

lpg is used by a lot of large-ish cars ie v6s and v8s cos its fuel efficient, and they are already quite torquey motors...

[Nightrider]

....the inital $1500+ will pay itself off over 1 or 2 years for sure.

A friend had his ute done recently and got a $500 government subsidy rebate. That certainly took the edge off the cost.

[ek]

But for a 1.3lt Civic? If your that tight, start riding your bike.

[timmya2]

well gas prices are really taking off.

[joonix]

initial cost. And , being a carb'd car it will be quite more expensive to convert to LPG compared to EFI ( IMO , correct me !)
Also , converting to LPG "loses" 10-15% of your cars peak power apparently.
BUT , the inital $1500+ will pay itself off over 1 or 2 years for sure.

There is generally more support for carburetted engines then there is EFI. Aside from taxis, most LPG systems end up on older bent eights.

However, there are no readilly available kits for the Civic. You'd have to import one from Europe, or have one peiced together. I'm sure that Gas Research Australia (http://www.gasresearch.com.au/) would be happy to help.

You see a few backyard oddities from time to time. I know of a turbo charged LPG 4AGE Sprinter making some good numbers.

Provided that the engine is correctly tuned for pure LPG operation, their need be no power loss. Their are quite a few bent eights and large capacity sixes out their making very large numbers on LPG.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Try tuning your civic to top condition and adjusting your driving style first.

Other then that, I'd look at selling it to purchase a desiel (Peugeot 405/6 most likely) or hybrid (first generation Prius is available for import via SEVS). Either option is a significant investment over your Civic however.

[PhatSol]

Provided that the engine is correctly tuned for pure LPG operation, their need be no power loss. Their are quite a few bent eights and large capacity sixes out their making very large numbers on LPG.

Check out the falcon E-gas engine, which has increased CR and is factory tuned for LPG. It makes 156kW, the petrol model 182kW.

[keric_02]

your gonna lose alot of power by converting it to lpg, which isnt such a good idea if you werent originally happy with power of the car... i'd convert a v6, v8 cos it wouldnt be as noticeable but a lil 1.3L 4cyl running on Lpg would be horrible to drive

[joonix]

Check out the falcon E-gas engine, which has increased CR and is factory tuned for LPG. It makes 156kW, the petrol model 182kW.

The E-Gas inline six is tuned for maximum economy, whilst maintaining a reasonable level of drivability.

Whilst I don't have the specifications handy, I expect the compression ratio to be not much higher then on the petrol variant, and the mixer to be compromised towards economy. 11:1 and 12:1 is common for after market LPG engines, and there are plenty of mixers and other associated components available that are geared toward preformance.

Whilst LPG does have a lower caloric content then petrol, this is offset by the more complete combustion.

It is possible, through proper parts selection and correct tuning for an engine running LPG to generate just as much, or more power then its petrol variant, and still be more cost effective (aside from the conversion costs).

[j3z3z]

i know that they make easy 12-13sec toyota 4cyl lpg cars with turbo mind you! go hard and if you keep it off max boost get good economy!

[ROCKET]

also the actual gas cylinder itself weighs alot if u have ever looked at the boot of a taxi then u'll know what im talking about
they are not only big but heavy too

[hoonda]

the extra juice it will suck to haul the lpg tank will probaly negate any benefit in economy you get.

plus you will have no boot- and thats not good if its a hatch to start with.

[gnx1987]

You don't have to get a big gas tank though. I used to work at joint making gas tanks and we were making them in sizes ranging from about 15cm in diameter to 60cm in diameter and any where from about 50cm long to 150cm long. I've also heard of some joint that's come up with gas injection which they applied to a 225kw gen 3 and got about an extra 8kw when it was tuned to gas injection. Can't remember the name of the joint though.

[8100rpm]

i think the 1.3litre shouldnt be that bad petrol,if it is i think u better off have the car a tune or do a service

[joonix]

the extra juice it will suck to haul the lpg tank will probaly negate any benefit in economy you get.

plus you will have no boot- and thats not good if its a hatch to start with.

The weight difference is negligable.

Gas tanks come in all sizes. If you are converting to pure LPG (IMO the only way to go) you can remove the existing fuel tank, and replace it with a gas canister.

Remember, I'm only playing the devils advocate here. I dont reccomend going down the LPG route in this particular case.

[TEG61E]

Have you guys heard of the dual fuel systems?? Someone was just telling me about it today, where u can switch between gas for daily use and petrol for when u need the power. Anyone know anything about this??

[8100rpm]

i heard about it too, i think most people do that instead of coverting it to full gas

[Z]

Con: In excess of a year waiting list to get it installed.

[michael_antoi]

how is that a con?

it's not like ur physically standing in line.

[PhatSol]

The E-Gas inline six is tuned for maximum economy, whilst maintaining a reasonable level of drivability.

Same can be said for the petrol version. Yes you could get more power by running even higher CR, but once again same for the petrol version...

[joonix]

Same can be said for the petrol version. Yes you could get more power by running even higher CR, but once again same for the petrol version...

Certainly, however just because Ford's OEM setup does see a powerloss does not make the theory that LPG engines will make less power then petrol equivalents cannon.

By correct tuning, and choosing the apporpraite parts, an LPG conversion can see the same or more power.

[dc2dc2dc2]

my mumz ford is dual fuel. To be honest with you...i cannot notice any power differences between when i flick from gas to petrol. If there is a power loss i think it is minimal, people make gas sound so so bad like if u had a V8 by putting gas conversion the V8 turns into a lil 1.3ltr engine.

[Petronas]

Have you guys heard of the dual fuel systems?? Someone was just telling me about it today, where u can switch between gas for daily use and petrol for when u need the power. Anyone know anything about this??
This has been used since the late 90's with Taxi's

And A 1 year waiting list? Damm, I was planning to get this on my 1st car Next year...

Are these dual systems available for any car?

And you should get the power back instantly when you switch back to petrol yeah? The only negative is you might gain 6 - 10kg in your car.

[EG5[KRT]]

if u didnt realise lpg has a better octane rating then optimax.so if u did convert ur car to lpg it would actually run better due to the fact that ur map sensor will c the difference in octane and run better fuel economy and more power due to that fact that the timing will b advanced.

also lpg wont coke up ur combustion chamber due to it being a higher octane unlike normal unleaded. even afta a few years u tests have shown that the reason why taxis can run so long is coz their pistons and valves have no carbon build up which causes wear and tear.

[exquisit]

with the price of petrol these days this conversion seems quite viable

[Civic Type R]

Also , converting to LPG "loses" 10-15% of your cars peak power apparently..

How can it lose power when the octane of gas is around 140 and is better for the engine than regular or premium unleaded :confused:

[bennjamin]

How can it lose power when the octane of gas is around 140 and is better for the engine than regular or premium unleaded :confused:

something to do with the atmosperic convertor ( gas converted back into liquid petroleum) ?!? Ive read up from a fast fours a few years back - "apparently" ;)

[mugeneration]

Just put on a good air filter and a good exhaust and it'll be really economic.

[CONS] You'll lose your entire boot. LPG gives good around the city economy, but on the highway its fairly similar to petrol. Youll lose your power, dont try and drive up any hills! Your exhaust gasses will STINK. You'll be adding extra weight to your car, combined with the lessened power = :( . Gay red sticker on ur number plate lol

[PROS] Better around the city economy. Save some cash (eventually, over a couple of years). Helping the environment.

[blubber]

Hmmm can you not remove your petrol tank if you install a straight gas system??

Taxi's also run longer because they are always running => car doesnt get cold => engine always well lubricated with oil => less wear & tear

[bennjamin]

Taxi's also run longer because they are always running => car doesnt get cold => engine always well lubricated with oil => less wear & tear

I think its also to do with associated driving style...BTW tho , ive seen plenty of taxis break down !

[iamhappy46]

I am a qualified gas installer in NSW.
Firstly, even tho LPG does have a higher Octane rating,(ie its ability to resist detonation), it does have a lower calorific rating(energy stored in the fuel)
Which means to make decent/similiar power to petrol, you would require more LPG ingested by the motor. That is why hi-comp motors make more power.
However, using an LPG Injection system sprays/injects the LPG under pressure into the engine, which means more power is made that way.
V6 & V8's normally require a set of lower heat range spark plugs with a wider gap to regain most of their power.
I have seen a Lexus 4.0 V8 with LPG Injection squirt out 400hp at the flywheel on a stock motor, which is scary.
We have a 3 month waiting list at work for LPG conversions because the national & international demand has meant that LPG Converters are in short supply. It is a pain in the @ss but seeing as those idiots in Canberra are thinking of cutting the LPG subsidy, it may not be worth converting to LPG anyway(Think over $1 a litre)
Something to think about huh?