Is the new Legend selling well?

[IAMVTEC]

Its been out a while now but I havent seen even one legend driving around the streets. I think the car has a great interior and is worth the money. Whats happening, are people choosing to get entry level BMWs instead of this? I see a lot of those around when they are nowhere near as good as the Legend.

[destrukshn]

legends don't sell much, you even hardly see the older legends on the road.

[EuroDude]

Yeh i've seen one new Legend on the road, and maybe one old legend once a month lol

For that price, most people prefer a European alternative or a Lexus.

[aaronng]

I've seen 2.

Hmm, what Lexus or 5 series can you buy at the Legend's price?

[EuroDude]

Audi A6 ~$80,000
BMW 5 Series but thats $93000, most would probably go for a 330 instead
Holden Caprice $70000 (not european but this is AUS remember ;))
Lexus ES300 $76000 or even the top range IS250 for $78000
Mercedes C or E class $pfft rip off lol
Saab 9-5 Aero $80000
Volvo S80 $75000


But for value of money, its hard to beat the Legend feature wise.
Problem is, not everyone knows how decent the Legend actually is. Or for social status, they prefer to get a BMW/Merc because of the badge despite having less features.

If Honda put an Acura badge on the Legend, will that give the car a Lexus-type status and sell more? Who knows..

[destrukshn]

take the saab and volvo off
rubbish they are.
lol.

[aaronng]

I'd take the IS250 off as well. It's a totally different class. Is there a A6 3.2L at that price? I would go for a Passat R36 when it comes out. It should be about 65-70k OTR when it comes out.

[EuroDude]

The cheapest A6 3.2L is $96k.

Yeh the IS250 is more Euro/Aurion/3Series territory. And yes, volvos and saabs suk lol

[aaronng]

The IS250 is even smaller than the Euro in passenger and boot space! I'd put it... um... in the same class as a 4 door S15? It has less room than every Jap car I've been in, including the back seat of a 0.6L Daihatsu Mira!

[EuroDude]

Really? From the outside it looks similar in dimension to the euro. The sides look terribly narrow though.. so I guess its more similar to the new 06 civic lol.

[aaronng]

Really? From the outside it looks similar in dimension to the euro. The sides look terribly narrow though.. so I guess its more similar to the new 06 civic lol.
The interior of the 06 civic is larger!!!!

If you haven't been in an IS250, go to the dealer to try it out. It's a must see. I still can't get over how Lexus designed such a brilliant car that has less passenger and boot space than almost everything on the market (except for a Clio). I was checking it out, getting the full tour from the salesperson. Driver's seat, nice. Interior quality, nice. Rear seat, I can't get my foot under the driver's seat! My knee is pushing against the driver's backrest. My hair is touching the roof (was a non-sunroof model too!). Got out, opened the boot... and my first WTF came out my mouth. LOL.

[EuroDude]

bwaha thats a surprise. May check one out lol.

Looking at some pics, the wheel arches make it look like a bigger car.
webwombat thought the boot space was decent for the size of the car though.
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/lexus-is250-review.htm

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/lexus-is259-3.jpg

[aaronng]

The writer must have low standards. Haha. I'd say it's about 2/3 the usable space of my 04 boot! You can only fit 1 medium suitcase in the boot. The large suitcases designed to hold 30kg won't fit. The rear suspension takes up all the room. And the floor is shallow, so you can't stand small suitcases on their side.

[aaronng]

Hmm, just read that review, and it's worrying especially since they claim that the cruise control is "laser-guided".

Officially, the IS250 has 378L of boot volume, while the 06 Euro has 418L. But boot space is more useful when it is at the boot floor, rather than at the top. And the IS250's intrusive suspension leaves most of that 378L at the top of the boot space.

[IAMVTEC]

Yea its true the IS250 is a very small car, the 06 Civic is bigger inside and out. But I love the design of the car anyway and its going to be my next car unless something cooler comes out, which I doubt. So far only the Euro Luxury and the IS250 fits what I want but the Euro is a bit similar to Civic.


About the Legend, those comparisons with the European cars is bad because the Legend's $70k includes all the options you could want, but a $93k BMW 5 series would have close to nothing fitted. Knowing the price of BMW options even a 525 would be close to double the Legends price. Is that how much a badge is worth?

I dont see whats so good about the BMW badge anyway, it just says waste of money to me.

[Vinnie]

jap cars hav always been cheaper than euros. its all to do with reputation and badge snobbery really coz although bimmers, mercs etc are great cars noone can argue that theyre not overpriced... if u stuck a merc badge on a legend they cood prob move it for $100k plus.

[aaronng]

jap cars hav always been cheaper than euros. its all to do with reputation and badge snobbery really coz although bimmers, mercs etc are great cars noone can argue that theyre not overpriced... if u stuck a merc badge on a legend they cood prob move it for $100k plus.

That's the perception here. But in the US, the TSX is about US$3000 cheaper than a BMW 325i. Over there, japanese cars that have luxury are not excluded from luxury segment. It's all about snobbery here.

[IAMVTEC]

Yea doesnt Lexus sell more cars than BMW and Benz in America?? Americans are stupid in some areas but at least they seem to buy cars based on its merit rather than on its badge.BMW is way overpriced and overrated in Australia.

The thing is, if BMW was priced similarly to say Honda here, I think a lot of the BMW drivers now wouldnt even want BMW then. They'd go for the premium priced option instead.

In relative terms, Euro luxury is really a bargain in Australia!

[aaronng]

Yea doesnt Lexus sell more cars than BMW and Benz in America?? Americans are stupid in some areas but at least they seem to buy cars based on its merit rather than on its badge.BMW is way overpriced and overrated in Australia.

The thing is, if BMW was priced similarly to say Honda here, I think a lot of the BMW drivers now wouldnt even want BMW then. They'd go for the premium priced option instead.

In relative terms, Euro luxury is really a bargain in Australia!

^^ LOL, can't believe I'm saying this, but good post IAMVTEC

[EuroDude]

Welll what I heard was that BMW have been taking advantage of their own badge and producing lesser quality cars with a 20% "badge surcharge" and hope that buyers dont notice.

Which seems about right, I mean look at the current 3 Series, nothing special really...

[UNLS1]

honda only expect each dealer to sell one a month...

we have sold around 7 so far but we always have been a strong legend dealer

[IAMVTEC]

^^ LOL, can't believe I'm saying this, but good post IAMVTEC

May I have a reputation point for it please? The red box is currently very ugly.

[yourfather]

yeah but you earned the red box

[aaronng]

Welll what I heard was that BMW have been taking advantage of their own badge and producing lesser quality cars with a 20% "badge surcharge" and hope that buyers dont notice.

Which seems about right, I mean look at the current 3 Series, nothing special really...

Not really, the 3 is good for what it is, except for looks. The quality of materials and build is still better than the Euro. Pity about the looks.

Instead, the new 335ci looks SUPER HOT. Saw one on the road and I like.

[aaronng]

May I have a reputation point for it please? The red box is currently very ugly.

Nope, PQ points are only for technical posts.

[IAMVTEC]

Ah ok, it will be a while before I make it back to grey then.

[IS250]

I would say the new Legend is selling very well. Here are the figures for October:

Vehicle Sales
Mercedes-Benz E-Class 173

BMW 5 Series 116

Honda Legend 90

Lexus GS 83

Audi A6 50

Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 46

Mercedes-Benz R-Class 33

Jaguar S-Type 18

Saab 95 6

Citroen C6 4

Volvo V70 4

Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 1

Lexus ES300 0

Peugeot 607 0

Volvo S80 0

[EuroDude]

Lexus ES300 0

Peugeot 607 0

Volvo S80 0


lol not suprised. those ES300's are fugly imo.
116 BMW 5 series though :eek: didnt know they were that popular...

[IS250]

Yeah, the ES300 really looks terrible! What on earth were they thinking with those headlights?
They should push as hard as they can to bring the ES350 in quickly. That thing actually looks pretty good.

[shinji112]

es350 looks like a bloody new camry.. the es300 looked like the old camry.. just being lazy and updating the design a bit and slapping a Lexus badge on it.
i've seen only one new legend.. it was maroon in colour.. wat a waste of money

[EuroDude]

Yep its unfortunate how Lexus used Toyota chassis for many of their models, especially since the Toyota designers are terrible at designing car shapes. Their new colour coded hog-nose grill signature is a rip off of Mazda and looks so wrong lol

That Lexus 4WD is the worst, it looks exactly like a Landcruiser but has a Lexus badge. wth were they thinking :p

[IAMVTEC]

I'm OK with them using Toyota chassis, Lexus is Toyota after all. But I think Toyota do give the more stylish designs to Lexus, like how a IS250 looks similar to a Camry from the rear but so much better and slicker.

[EuroDude]

The IS series is an exception, they aren't based on a toyota chassis and look great. I think the Lexus design team created the IS series from scratch.

Toyota should use Lexus' design team lol

[panda[cRx]]

the legends are selling OK, but how much legend marketing have you seen?
i think i've seen like one 15sec tv spot and no print advertising.
do they think they'll sell the car from workd of mouth alone? f*ck no!

as much as sales are improving for honda australia (well ahead of their target) they need to pull out their finger out their ass.

here they have a fabulous car with the legend and most of the market dont even really know about it. the only people that would really know about it would be current honda owners that are regularly at their dealer for servicing.


honda only expect each dealer to sell one a month...

we have sold around 7 so far but we always have been a strong legend dealer

last i heard we (Travis Honda) had sold the highest percentage of legends state wide :)

[EuroDude]

;994661']the legends are selling OK, but how much legend marketing have you seen?

yeah strange that, there are heaps of jazz/euro/civic/odyssey adverts, yet rarely any legend ads.. (or even the Thai Accord for that matter)

Although I guess its wiser to put their advertising budget towards the better selling models..

[aaronng]

That's because no one made a Legend ad.

The Jazz ad is from the UK, Euro probably as well. The Civic and odyssey are local.

[EuroDude]

Ive seen that 15second SH-AWD Legend ad, played when Honda sponsors a certain TV program, thats it though.

Maybe they are waiting for more stock before they release a full 30 second ad.

[IAMVTEC]

The problem with a Legend commercial is that its very hard to make it sound appealing. Its obviously a luxury car and the biggest advantage it has over its competitors is the lower price and more standard features. But using a lower price angle to push a luxury product isnt the best strategy. Basically its too expensive for one type of consumer and not expensive enough for another type. Some luxury car buyers are more interested in the European label attached than the actual product!!

But if they actually saw the car in person they'd know its a great car and definitely worth the purchase.

[aaronng]

^^ I doubt that the Legend commercial is a proper commercial. It's just some stock footage with a voiceover. Honda Australia needs to get off its ass and make a commercial for the Legend!

[bigdongers]

I have seen one on the roads in Perth.

[IS250]

I don't quite understand Honda's marketing as well. I've only seen a Legend ad a few times on the big 3 channels.
On the other hand I've seen heaps of Legend advertising on SBS! And they're always grouped together. eg. 10 sec ad about SH-AWD, then some other ad, then 10 sec ad about reversing camera, another random ad, then 10 sec about noise cancellation thingy, another random ad and then another 10 sec ad about active headlights. This is all during the one commercial break. Strange that they seem to be targeting SBS viewers.

[Zilli]

I havent seen any Legend ads on TV or press lately

whos going to buy the car if they dont know its out there

[Zilli]

they are targeting older viewers - SBS

[aaronng]

I don't quite understand Honda's marketing as well. I've only seen a Legend ad a few times on the big 3 channels.
On the other hand I've seen heaps of Legend advertising on SBS! And they're always grouped together. eg. 10 sec ad about SH-AWD, then some other ad, then 10 sec ad about reversing camera, another random ad, then 10 sec about noise cancellation thingy, another random ad and then another 10 sec ad about active headlights. This is all during the one commercial break. Strange that they seem to be targeting SBS viewers.

Honda's too poor to pay for the big 3?

[Thorn2004]

Yea doesnt Lexus sell more cars than BMW and Benz in America?? Americans are stupid in some areas but at least they seem to buy cars based on its merit rather than on its badge.BMW is way overpriced and overrated in Australia.

The thing is, if BMW was priced similarly to say Honda here, I think a lot of the BMW drivers now wouldnt even want BMW then. They'd go for the premium priced option instead.

In relative terms, Euro luxury is really a bargain in Australia!

That is true, I thaught that when tossing up whether to get a Euro or a Mazda 6 Turbo etc I just couldn't fault the Luxury Euro's Price considering all the features it comes with, I remember thinking that they could easily sell it for 70-80K and like you have said if they slapped a BMW or Merc badge on it it would sell for that much! To get my Milano Red Luxury Euro for under 50K onroad with Ming Tints allround and a spoiler to me seemed like a deal I couldn't refuse! I really think the Euros are a bargain for what they bring to the market, they are still a good solid car, great design, sporty yet luxury, good handling and good power output for a 4 cylinder non-turbo!
I love the black leather seats and the 05 17 inch rims and I can tell you now that it still turns heads wherever I go especially after a wash and polish ! ( I think the Milano red is underrated by many around here if you actually see one in person with nice dark tints and the luxury rims have a close look you will be suprised!)

[IAMVTEC]

After taking another look I have to say the Legends interior is really great. Its a 3.5 engine as well right??? If I had a family Id get this car. Its great value, I dont like it when people try compare Hondas to German cars like BMW as if they are like a benchmark. There is no comparison, the BMW you get for a Legend price is garbage in comparison. LOL

[hondarox]

That is true, I thaught that when tossing up whether to get a Euro or a Mazda 6 Turbo etc I just couldn't fault the Luxury Euro's Price considering all the features it comes with, I remember thinking that they could easily sell it for 70-80K and like you have said if they slapped a BMW or Merc badge on it it would sell for that much! To get my Milano Red Luxury Euro for under 50K onroad with Ming Tints allround and a spoiler to me seemed like a deal I couldn't refuse! I really think the Euros are a bargain for what they bring to the market, they are still a good solid car, great design, sporty yet luxury, good handling and good power output for a 4 cylinder non-turbo!
I love the black leather seats and the 05 17 inch rims and I can tell you now that it still turns heads wherever I go especially after a wash and polish ! ( I think the Milano red is underrated by many around here if you actually see one in person with nice dark tints and the luxury rims have a close look you will be suprised!)

The Euro is showing its age. The Aurion Presara is better value for money. It has a 200kW V6 engine, 6 speed auto, sat navig, driver's seat dual memory, more electrics for front passenger and driver, front sensors, reversing camera, power rear sunshade, bluetooth/mp3 compatible, auto level active HID lights, headlight washers, LED tail lights, auto dipping exterior mirrors, electrochromatic rear view mirror, smart entry, start/stop engine button, Telematics monitoring system, speed alert. I believe the rrp is $49,990. For the Euro Lux with sat navig and metallic paint the rrp is $46,200. The only stuff in the Euro that's not in the Presara is heated front seats and exterior mirrors.

[aaronng]

The Euro is showing its age. The Aurion Presara is better value for money. It has a 200kW V6 engine, 6 speed auto, sat navig, driver's seat dual memory, more electrics for front passenger and driver, front sensors, reversing camera, power rear sunshade, bluetooth/mp3 compatible, auto level active HID lights, headlight washers, LED tail lights, auto dipping exterior mirrors, electrochromatic rear view mirror, smart entry, start/stop engine button, Telematics monitoring system, speed alert. I believe the rrp is $49,990. For the Euro Lux with sat navig and metallic paint the rrp is $46,200. The only stuff in the Euro that's not in the Presara is heated front seats and exterior mirrors.

The Euro has best value in the base model. Not in when you go into the luxury segment. Just like the Aurion. The Aurion AT-X is unbeatable at $35,990 (beats the base Euro down too). When you go up to 49,990 of the Presara, there is a lot more competition. You get all the FPV and HSV V8s to fight with as well as the entry models of the luxury brands.

[hondarox]

The Euro has best value in the base model. Not in when you go into the luxury segment. Just like the Aurion. The Aurion AT-X is unbeatable at $35,990 (beats the base Euro down too). When you go up to 49,990 of the Presara, there is a lot more competition. You get all the FPV and HSV V8s to fight with as well as the entry models of the luxury brands.

FPVs and HSVs cost tens of thousands of dollars more. Entry level models of European marques with a basic 4-cyl engine still cost thousands more.The Presara has better value for money than the Calais and Fairmont Ghia, ignoring its FWD.

[IAMVTEC]

Entry level luxury brands are all hugely flawed in one way or another. And they still cost much more than a Euro Luxury. Id say Euro Luxury is a great value. Its a car with not much flaws except its front wheel drive which isnt even a big deal to most car buyers.

[Vinnie]

Entry level luxury brands are all hugely flawed in one way or another. And they still cost much more than a Euro Luxury. Id say Euro Luxury is a great value. Its a car with not much flaws except its front wheel drive which isnt even a big deal to most car buyers.

although im sure everyone can agree that major badge snobbery is certainly a large contributing factor in the prices of the euros, there is another main issue. the euro lux/aurion and even fairmonts/calais are really jus tarted up versions of a much cheaper model with more stuff in them. for manufacturers to jus add features onto an existing chassis is relatively cheap and easy whereas that isnt the case with the euros. sure they have different levels of trim on each of their models but they dont start with a $25k-$35k base model...

and the fact that it is fwd is an issue but prob doesent matter to the people that are buying it fortunately. teh rwd hsv's and fpv's for about $20k more are dedicated performance cars (as well as having luxury features) whereas obviously none of the aformensioned luxury models are really performance oriented... for what they are both the toyota and honda are good cars for the price. :)

[MiSloVic]

probably Honda Australia is targeting the expats market, with its ads being in SBS. personally, the 'right' price for the legend is probably $60ish.

SHAWD, though good, but is expensive to produce, and pple buying a 75k car would have gotten a AWD RX350 for that money, with better off-road capability, better 'badge' and probably better interior, at the expense of sporty handling.

so, if honda had done a 2WD legend and sell for $60ish, while keeping its AWD model at the premium $70ish, its sales will be better.

[industrie]

The Euro is showing its age. The Aurion Presara is better value for money. It has a 200kW V6 engine, 6 speed auto, sat navig, driver's seat dual memory, more electrics for front passenger and driver, front sensors, reversing camera, power rear sunshade, bluetooth/mp3 compatible, auto level active HID lights, headlight washers, LED tail lights, auto dipping exterior mirrors, electrochromatic rear view mirror, smart entry, start/stop engine button, Telematics monitoring system, speed alert. I believe the rrp is $49,990. For the Euro Lux with sat navig and metallic paint the rrp is $46,200. The only stuff in the Euro that's not in the Presara is heated front seats and exterior mirrors.

your comparing a toyota to a honda...honda still has the better name quality over toyota...but otherwise the aurion is a good value bang for the buck

[aaronng]

SHAWD, though good, but is expensive to produce, and pple buying a 75k car would have gotten a AWD RX350 for that money, with better off-road capability, better 'badge' and probably better interior, at the expense of sporty handling.

so, if honda had done a 2WD legend and sell for $60ish, while keeping its AWD model at the premium $70ish, its sales will be better.
The Legend was not made to go off road. It has SH-AWD because all that power through the front wheels alone would cause wheelspin or engage traction control all the time in the rain.

And I prefer the Legend's interior over the RX350's.

[IAMVTEC]

Legend >> RX350

[IAMVTEC]

although im sure everyone can agree that major badge snobbery is certainly a large contributing factor in the prices of the euros, there is another main issue. the euro lux/aurion and even fairmonts/calais are really jus tarted up versions of a much cheaper model with more stuff in them. for manufacturers to jus add features onto an existing chassis is relatively cheap and easy whereas that isnt the case with the euros. sure they have different levels of trim on each of their models but they dont start with a $25k-$35k base model...

and the fact that it is fwd is an issue but prob doesent matter to the people that are buying it fortunately. teh rwd hsv's and fpv's for about $20k more are dedicated performance cars (as well as having luxury features) whereas obviously none of the aformensioned luxury models are really performance oriented... for what they are both the toyota and honda are good cars for the price. :)

Meh its just a market strategy by them. Their entry levels can easily start at 40k(their true worth thought it can be dispiuted) but they choose to start it at 50k. ie-the 320 and the 1.6-2.0 A4s, what a waste of money.

Personally I think all if not most of the entry level ranges luxury brands have cars that dont feel very luxury. I mean a 3 series, a C Benz, they are just normal cars. If youre paying for luxury might as well get luxury. I mean a S is luxury to sit in, a E, yea you can tell the difference with normal cars. Which is why I will never buy a entry level luxury brand car. its a ripoff

[MiSloVic]

The Legend was not made to go off road. It has SH-AWD because all that power through the front wheels alone would cause wheelspin or engage traction control all the time in the rain.

And I prefer the Legend's interior over the RX350's.

definitely agree the SHAWD in the legend is not for off-road, but then.. i won't want to spend more $ on a AWD if i'm not going to bring it off-road. the legend is really a niche model at this pricing.

[aaronng]

Personally I think all if not most of the entry level ranges luxury brands have cars that dont feel very luxury. I mean a 3 series, a C Benz, they are just normal cars. If youre paying for luxury might as well get luxury. I mean a S is luxury to sit in, a E, yea you can tell the difference with normal cars. Which is why I will never buy a entry level luxury brand car. its a ripoff
They were made to be luxury sport sedans (except for the C, what the hell is it?!?!?!). They are meant to be sportier than consumer level cars, yet have the sporty engine and handling (as well as look and image) while carrying a reputable badge. I don't get how can you choose an E or S over a C, especially if it is just for 1 person to drive with a max of 1 passenger. I don't think people would buy an E as a car for driving pleasure, or as a practical car to get from point A to point B. The E and S are cars to flaunt your wealth, boost your image and carry your passengers in comfort.

It's true that luxury sport sedans like the 3, C , Audi As and IS are overpriced here in Australia. But htat doesn't mean that there isn't a market for them.

[IAMVTEC]

Yeah you said it well thats what I want to say that the 3s and Cs are overpriced for what they do. They cost more but dont offer a luxury experience. I wouldnt know about sporty performance because me and people I know dont really race or drive very fast but from what I experienced the IS250, A4 and C200 are all very slow in a straight line.

I thought the Audi and Benz was rubbish. I dont know what the extra money buys you in those cars because the car inside is no better than a Honda. IS250 is a bit better but is too cramped.

[NeoNode]

definitely agree the SHAWD in the legend is not for off-road, but then.. i won't want to spend more $ on a AWD if i'm not going to bring it off-road. the legend is really a niche model at this pricing.
You can't see the advantages of SH-AWD being the potentially safer option than a FWD or RWD setup, rather than thinking all AWD vehicles are created for off-road purposes?

[MiSloVic]

You can't see the advantages of SH-AWD being the potentially safer option than a FWD or RWD setup, rather than thinking all AWD vehicles are created for off-road purposes?

I'm not about to engage in the AWD or SHAWD or FWD/RWD debate again, but long story short, yes, i see the benefit of AWD, but having to pay a huge premium for this 'awd' is not beneficial for the pockets.

similarly, liberty vs euro, liberty with awd, is priced similar to euro. i bought the euro over the liberty primarily 'cos it is a Honda and the liberty's interior is not as well built as the euro. at $75k, not many people is willing to part with their money for a Honda, as $75k can buy them a snobbish badge.

[aaronng]

I'm not about to engage in the AWD or SHAWD or FWD/RWD debate again, but long story short, yes, i see the benefit of AWD, but having to pay a huge premium for this 'awd' is not beneficial for the pockets.

similarly, liberty vs euro, liberty with awd, is priced similar to euro. i bought the euro over the liberty primarily 'cos it is a Honda and the liberty's interior is not as well built as the euro. at $75k, not many people is willing to part with their money for a Honda, as $75k can buy them a snobbish badge.
LOL, have you been in a Legend? Your $75k gives you an interior that is more comfy than a Mercedes S320! You don't pay $75k just for SH-AWD. SH-AWD is just a side benefit of the 3.5L engine needing something more than FWD. You get all the creature comforts except for massaging and cold A/C seats, underbody aero panelling that is better than the Euro and all the usual shit like directional HID. sat nav, sunroof, etc...

[IAMVTEC]

I'm not about to engage in the AWD or SHAWD or FWD/RWD debate again, but long story short, yes, i see the benefit of AWD, but having to pay a huge premium for this 'awd' is not beneficial for the pockets.

similarly, liberty vs euro, liberty with awd, is priced similar to euro. i bought the euro over the liberty primarily 'cos it is a Honda and the liberty's interior is not as well built as the euro. at $75k, not many people is willing to part with their money for a Honda, as $75k can buy them a snobbish badge.

Hey shut up. The Legend is not even in same class as the Euro, in any way. The Euro is a normal car, the Legend is a luxury car. Youre comparing C to S. And I much rather spend $75k buying a car with real luxury rather than spend $75k buying a normal car with a "luxury" badge.

[MiSloVic]

LOL, have you been in a Legend? Your $75k gives you an interior that is more comfy than a Mercedes S320! You don't pay $75k just for SH-AWD. SH-AWD is just a side benefit of the 3.5L engine needing something more than FWD. You get all the creature comforts except for massaging and cold A/C seats, underbody aero panelling that is better than the Euro and all the usual shit like directional HID. sat nav, sunroof, etc...
hmm.. why had i not been in a legend?. i was looking forward to its arrival, and u can bet that i was one of the first to be in it.
yes, its got the necessary creature comfort to be priced in the premium bracket, but... well.. those are just my personal opinion. didnt meant to offend anyone (if i did).:(

[MiSloVic]

Hey shut up. The Legend is not even in same class as the Euro, in any way. The Euro is a normal car, the Legend is a luxury car. Youre comparing C to S. And I much rather spend $75k buying a car with real luxury rather than spend $75k buying a normal car with a "luxury" badge.

what an eye opening reply.. well... anyway, doesnt matter if u hadnt read my post correctly.

[aaronng]

hmm.. why had i not been in a legend?. i was looking forward to its arrival, and u can bet that i was one of the first to be in it.
yes, its got the necessary creature comfort to be priced in the premium bracket, but... well.. those are just my personal opinion. didnt meant to offend anyone (if i did).:(
Nah, you didn't offend anyone. We just like debating. If we sound offensive, just let us know and we'll tone down. If you were looking forward to the Legend's arrival and its $75k pricetag beats everything in the luxury segment, then which parts of the Legend were you disappointed with?

$75k gets you very little luxury car in the other brands except for the Aurion Presara.... So the only way I would be disappointed is if I was cross-shopping with the Aurion Presara and I didn't care about putting all the power on the front 2 wheels.

[JaCe]

I read a bit of the thread... but IMO, the Legend just seems... not that great? Sure technology wise it seems superb but my opinion of it isn't too hot. For that money I'd rather get the 3 or even the IS250. Maybe it's the marketing, but there's something about the Legend which just doesn't appeal. I sat in it at the dealership, haven't actually driven it or anything... but it just didn't feel like the luxury flagship which I expected from Honda. Meh.

[aaronng]

I read a bit of the thread... but IMO, the Legend just seems... not that great? Sure technology wise it seems superb but my opinion of it isn't too hot. For that money I'd rather get the 3 or even the IS250. Maybe it's the marketing, but there's something about the Legend which just doesn't appeal. I sat in it at the dealership, haven't actually driven it or anything... but it just didn't feel like the luxury flagship which I expected from Honda. Meh.

If you are comparing a 3 or IS250 to a Legend, then of course you wouldn't like the Legend since you are after a smaller car. The luxury of the IS250 is not near the Legend yet. The Legend was so much more comfortable. The IS250 feels more like a driver's car like the E46.

[EuroDude]

Saw another Silver Legend on the roads two days ago, damn it looked nice. Looking at the front of it, I thought it was a Merc or something. The rear could do with a bit more styling though.

Thats a total of two i've seen excluding ones at the dealer. Heck, Ive seen more imported LHD corvettes than Legends lol

[IAMVTEC]

I havent seen any new Legends on the road yet, even NSXs are more common on the street.

I think the Legend is a great car just from sitting in it, but its in a difficult situation with its pricing. Its too expensive for some, but not expensive enough for others.

And if you're comparing 3 series and IS250 to Legend you're way way off. The only thing they have in common in the slightest is the price.

[akira]

ive seen a legend on the road once.
i reckon it looks good for a luxury car but price wise im not sure i would spend that much...rather wait, save up and buy a much more nicer luxury car.loving the is250s front but not liking the back...looks pretty average.i should go test drive one of those and find out for myself.

[IAMVTEC]

ive seen a legend on the road once.
i reckon it looks good for a luxury car but price wise im not sure i would spend that much...rather wait, save up and buy a much more nicer luxury car.loving the is250s front but not liking the back...looks pretty average.i should go test drive one of those and find out for myself.


How tall are you? if you over 180cm dont even bother unless u like hitting your head on the ceiling during drives. Im speaking from experience.


LOL, the Legend is a much better car than a IS250 in all ways except exterior style. The ONLY advantage IS250 has is the price. for 50k its good, for 75k? its terrible.

[hondarox]

your comparing a toyota to a honda...honda still has the better name quality over toyota...but otherwise the aurion is a good value bang for the buck

It's debatable whether Honda has a better name quality than Toyota. Quality surveys like the ones from renown JD Power has consistently rated Toyota much higher than Honda. Personally, I don't like the build in Thailand Hondas. Let's hope the next Euro still comes from Japan.

[aaronng]

It's debatable whether Honda has a better name quality than Toyota. Quality surveys like the ones from renown JD Power has consistently rated Toyota much higher than Honda. Personally, I don't like the build in Thailand Hondas. Let's hope the next Euro still comes from Japan.
JD Powers ranks Toyota together with Lexus as 1 brand. Honda and Acura are separate. Also I think their ranking is based on the number of problems reported per 100 vehicles. That gives an indication of reliability, but not quality. It's generally accepted that Toyota is up there in terms of reliability.

[IAMVTEC]

Honda the brand is better than Toyota. Its every class of car is better than its Toyota counterpart.

[hondarox]

JD Powers ranks Toyota together with Lexus as 1 brand. Honda and Acura are separate. Also I think their ranking is based on the number of problems reported per 100 vehicles. That gives an indication of reliability, but not quality. It's generally accepted that Toyota is up there in terms of reliability.

JD Power surveys both quality and reliability. Toyota (and Lexus) came up tops. Check out their website.

[Vinnie]

Honda the brand is better than Toyota. Its every class of car is better than its Toyota counterpart.

better is subjective... u pay more for the privilege of a honda badge and toyota still wins for reliability... neway this isnt a toyota v honda thread so ill jus leave it at that :)

[IAMVTEC]

Honda is the best brand out of all the Japanese manufacturers. Thats easy to tell they have the best tradition, the best current range, and the best racing results.

If you don't include sports cars, I think Honda actually has the best range and value of all the car brands in Australia. Dollar for dollar Honda is the best. In some countries Honda is quite expensive but here, its underpriced.

[[[d a n n y]]]

Honda is the best brand out of all the Japanese manufacturers. Thats easy to tell they have the best tradition, the best current range, and the best racing results.

If you don't include sports cars, I think Honda actually has the best range and value of all the car brands in Australia. Dollar for dollar Honda is the best. In some countries Honda is quite expensive but here, its underpriced.

Honda is good but it's not the best brand out of all the jap manufact.
if u want to talk about best range have a look at toyota.
toyota's got cars for every1
starting from the echo ( vitz) to the big luxo cars like Astrio , etc.
underpriced ey?
Generally honda cars are pretty damn expensive for what they are
Ie NSX 240K for a V6 midship sprots car.
i know it's a damn good car but were talking. mega bucks here.
Also the S2000
2l N/A 80K price tage not that good.
Wonderfull car very nice engine etc but still badly overpriced
Only good value for money i recon is the Accord
the civics are still pretty damn expensive for a small car

[EuroDude]

Meh ive never liked toyota, their styling is often bland and common, and the interiors are average and cheap looking, and there are simply too many of them on the road.
Prefer Honda's interior, styling, and drivetrains anyday.

Wouldnt say Honda is "the best" japanese manufacturer. Thats a toss up between Lexus, Honda, Subaru, and Mazda. They all have their moments of glory.

[IAMVTEC]

I would say Honda is the best.

Subaru is very one dimensional. Their whole range is basically 2 cars, impreza and liberty. Thats not competitive against the major labels. If you focus on only 2 cars they should be better than the competition which it isnt.

Mazda. No. I dont get how it can be better its basically a poor mans Honda which its always been. I dont see how they do anything better than Honda.

Lexus is just Toyota, and its overpriced compared to Honda.

[EuroDude]

depends on what aspect, u cant really say Honda is the best at everything generally

Honda is best for fuel economy
Lexus is best for competing against european alternatives
Toyota is best for bland common styling
Subaru or Nissan is best for Turbo implementations
Mazda is best for bold funky designs i.e. RX8
Toyota is best for Hybrid Technology

Different people have different needs. What good is a Honda if you need a V8 Sedan to tow a 2 Tonne caravan or boat?

[aaronng]

I would say Honda is the best.

Subaru is very one dimensional. Their whole range is basically 2 cars, impreza and liberty. Thats not competitive against the major labels. If you focus on only 2 cars they should be better than the competition which it isnt.

You forgot the Forester, which is very well accepted because of its real off road capability and many engine choices.



Lexus is just Toyota, and its overpriced compared to Honda.
You can say the same thing about Acura and Honda. But so far the luxury that Lexus shows in their car and in their customer service is unmatched by Honda. As a luxury brand, Lexus > Honda/Acura. As an economy brand, Honda > Toyota.

[MiSloVic]

Nah, you didn't offend anyone. We just like debating. If we sound offensive, just let us know and we'll tone down. If you were looking forward to the Legend's arrival and its $75k pricetag beats everything in the luxury segment, then which parts of the Legend were you disappointed with?

$75k gets you very little luxury car in the other brands except for the Aurion Presara.... So the only way I would be disappointed is if I was cross-shopping with the Aurion Presara and I didn't care about putting all the power on the front 2 wheels.

I guess i am only sore with the price.. I want a good car + AWD, and other goodies are nice to have for me though.. that is probably why i had only mentioned AWD and prices :p
anyway.. i am toyota adverse..:)

[IAMVTEC]

Honda is best for many other things other than just fuel economy. Out of all the japanese brands it has the best racing history. And Honda also has always had the most high tech mass producced Japanese car on the market for the last few decades. If Mazda(LOL) released something like NSX it would sell no copies at all.

[aaronng]

I guess i am only sore with the price.. I want a good car + AWD, and other goodies are nice to have for me though.. that is probably why i had only mentioned AWD and prices :p
anyway.. i am toyota adverse..:)

I want SH-AWD as well. But there is a catch 22. To use SH-AWD effectively, the engine has to make enough torque. And to make enough torque, you need a large engine or a turbo. Large engines only get used in large (and expensive) cars (for Honda at least), but at least we can wait for the turbo (I'd prefer NA though).

I hope that the rumour of the SH-AWD Accord comes true...

[aaronng]

Honda is best for many other things other than just fuel economy. Out of all the japanese brands it has the best racing history. And Honda also has always had the most high tech mass producced Japanese car on the market for the last few decades. If Mazda(LOL) released something like NSX it would sell no copies at all.

Have to give it to Honda though... When Toyota and Mazda we only doing FR sports coupes/2-seaters, Honda went all the way and built an MR handling supercar. Too bad the Italian competition decided to go for more power instead of improved handling like Honda did. Otherwise, the NSX-R would have been very competitive. To me, Honda didn't want to build a momey-making sports car. They wanted a car that showed that they lead over all other Jap makers.

[hondarox]

If you're not concern about the Presara being FWD, why spend $75K on a Legend when you could just spend $50K on a Presara.

What's in the Presara that's not in the Legend:
- sat navig with Telematics system.
- smart entry.
- rain sensing wipers.
- push start/stop engine button.
- 6 speed auto trans.
- headlight washers.
- auto dipping exterior mirror on reverse.
- electrochromatic rear view mirror.
- power rear sunshade.
- front and rear parking sensors to complement reversing camera.
- 200kW using regular unleaded.
- fuel economy 9.9L/100km vs Legend's 11.8L/100km.

What's in the Legend that's not in the Presara:
- 10 speaker Bose sound system.
- SHAWD.
- heated front seats.
- heated exterior mirrors.
- 216kW using premium unleaded.

Toyota's 3.5L V6 engine for the Aurion is used in the Lexus RX350 and ES350, Rav4 V6, Camry V6 and Avalon. It'll also be in the new Kluger and Tarago V6.

[sadlerau]

[QUOTE=hondarox;1036938]If you're not concern about the Presara being FWD, why spend $75K on a Legend when you could just spend $50K on a Presara.

hondarox where do I start?

First with the facts,
- sat nav will be retro fitted into Legends in the next 12 months
-Legend does have rain sensing wipers
-key start in Legend is one touch, effectively like a push button
-Legend has reverseing camera instead of dipping mirrors
-Legend has electrochromatic rear view mirror
-same for the rear power shade

Now for the subjective,
-have you driven a Legend? I ask, because I know if you had, and had any feeling for vehicle dynamics [as I have from 18 years of competion driving at Wanneroo], we would not be having this discussion.

The handling of the Legend is on another plane to the Presara [says me who has never driven one :o ]. No front wheel drive car [except for Hondas with a Type R in the name] could compare to the peerless handling displayed by the Legend. Now I am talking "road", everday handling, not "race" handling. On Hwy sweepers and open county roads it covers ground in a similar manner to my "98 NSX :eek: In the wet - no contest.

As admitted above, I have not driven a Presara, but without AWD it has no hope ;)

On the value for money front, I don't know how you value things, but the SH-AWD, design, quality, fit and finish of the Legend is worth the extra $25,000. But then I don't mind paying $350 for the right shirt, or for a Boss suit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag, well just a little, but there are people who CAN afford to buy Ferraris [not me] or BMWs. If you can't you can't.

What I do know is that unless your after a "sports sedan" you cannot get better "value" than the Legend at the moment. Try optioning up a BMW 5 to a similar level and you will not get any change from $135,000 :eek:

Of course all this ignores re-sale values, but that's another topic.

[hondarox]

Being in Melbourne, I've yet to see the "new" Legend on the road. The car was released overseas more than a year ago before it hit our shores and became an "old" car. The main feature was the SH-AWD. People with $75K don't really care what it does. I'm sure the Legend drives well. The back don't look good though - reminds me of the Maxima. But it's better than that of the Civic. The Civic''s back with the tail lights looks like it's going to droop and fall down any moment. IMO, the Euro's back is the best of all the current Hondas but it's getting a bit dated.

[MiSloVic]

Being in Melbourne, I've yet to see the "new" Legend on the road. The car was released overseas more than a year ago before it hit our shores and became an "old" car. The main feature was the SH-AWD. People with $75K don't really care what it does. I'm sure the Legend drives well. The back don't look good though - reminds me of the Maxima. But it's better than that of the Civic. The Civic''s back with the tail lights looks like it's going to droop and fall down any moment. IMO, the Euro's back is the best of all the current Hondas but it's getting a bit dated.

i've seen a handful already in melb.. mainly in the eastern suburbs, though. still drooling over the blu-tack traction.;)

[IRI]

If you're not concern about the Presara being FWD, why spend $75K on a Legend when you could just spend $50K on a Presara.



hehe, why spend 50k on a presara when you can get a fully optioned Kia Mentor for 35k?

Why buy a 14 sec ferrari for $500k
when you can have a 10sec skyline for 30k?

[nexace]

Is was a very disappointing day yesterday...

Went to the local Honda dealer to get our cars serviced...

Euro cost close to $200 for 10,000km service and the CRV cost nearly $600 for a 90,000km service - and this was without timing belt change. Only brake pads and injector cleaning!

Oh well..but this wasn't really an issue. Whilst getting the cars serviced, I talked to one of the sales guys. I had two main goals today (apart from getting the cars serviced) - test driving the MDX and test driving the Legend.

Firstly, I was told the MDX is a discontinued model and has been for the past 6 months or so :thumbdwn:

Secondly, they weren't a Legend stockist. :(

Not having seen this car on the road, it would have been nice to at least see one at the dealer but I'll have to go to Ringwood or Heidelberg.

IMHO I think the Legend is probably around 5k-8k overpriced but on the other hand, it has excellent build and finishing qualities. Not sure about options though...

Guess I'll have to go and pay James a visit one day :D

[EuroDude]

wtf I see one Legend months ago, then dont see one for ages, then today I see two of them, a silver one and a graphite one.

Graphite one looked awesome btw, looks better than the silver fo sure.

Still no Legend ads on telli, strange that.

[matt]

same thing here EuroDude, saw one not long after they were released and have seen 5 more over the past few weeks. most were graphite but one blue and one white one. quite a few for perth really

[sadlerau]

I've got a white one matt. My "company" car, had it since the 2nd of November, has 10,000kms [as of today], and loving it :)

Ain't perfect, nothing ever is, but if only the great un-washed only knew how good this car is! Let me know if you would like to go for a spin.

Bringing the original thread back on track, Honda sold 241 Legends in 2006. Wonder if that is on target, or better than they expected. If they budgeted for 40 odd [as I've heard on the grapevine] per month, and are already selling above that quota, perhaps they feel there is no need to advertise, especially if they can't get more cars?

[JMSBND]

I had a 1998 legend, just stuck acura badges on front and rear, dumped it on generic no name ford 18" rims and voila!!! instant "what the **** is that mad pimp ride???" lol! In dark green black windows got some great looks!and it was sooo comfy. Big back seat too.....................hehe!

[~Sp33~]

I had the honour of sitting in one at the Sydney international motorshow, and would have spent 75k for the amazing rear seat armrest, what an awesome contraption! i love how the cupholders do their thing its great!! Lol. I loved the interior design and would also love to own one.

[EuroDude]

Finally honda have released some adverts on telli .. albeit SBS lol

One with the Legend racing around a wet corner using SHAWD, the other with the noise canceling audio feature

about time :p

[underc35a]

Saw a silver legend the other day on George St, LED tails really eye catching!

[UNLS1]

ill be on the radio talking about the legend tomorrow

[hondarox]

ill be on the radio talking about the legend tomorrow

Good on you. Remember to reiterate that the Legend is Made in Japan. Otherwise, as someone in this forum had correctly pointed out, our kids would think that Honda is a Thai company.

[aaronng]

ill be on the radio talking about the legend tomorrow

Which radio station?:thumbsup:

[NeoNode]

Good on you. Remember to reiterate that the Legend is Made in Japan. Otherwise, as someone in this forum had correctly pointed out, our kids would think that Honda is a Thai company.
Seriously dude who the f**k cares, most of the stuff in your household is probably made in China.

[nexace]

Seriously dude who the f**k cares, most of the stuff in your household is probably made in China.

Hhhahaha... :thumbsup:

Yeah, which radio station and what time?

[Chubby]

Frankly, i loved my legend when i still had mine. Unfortunately i wrote off my 1988 model.

They're great cars to drive - Good power and handling.

When i get out of uni and got a steady job, i'll buy the latest one.

I'll show you I'LL SHOW YOU ALL!!

[UNLS1]

sorry blokes it was 3AW with neil mitchel. I was supposed to take an 07 S2K but honda dont have one in victoria atm so i had to take a legend along side a audi TT and a mazda MX5. Was a little out of place with the legend. wish i had the S2k as that was the radio station pic.

[IAMVTEC]

Good on you. Remember to reiterate that the Legend is Made in Japan. Otherwise, as someone in this forum had correctly pointed out, our kids would think that Honda is a Thai company.

Youre an idiot. Who the hell cares. Thailand > > Japan

If I had a choice, Japan would be the last country I support by giving them my money,

[aaronng]

Youre an idiot. Who the hell cares. Thailand > > Japan

If I had a choice, Japan would be the last country I support by giving them my money,

Just because you own a Thai-built car?

[nexace]

For those of you who are with RACV, there's a nice 4 page article in this months Royal Auto magazine.

If anyone wants to read it and doesn't have a copy, Ii'll be happy to scan it and post it up. :honda:

[UNLS1]

Good on you. Remember to reiterate that the Legend is Made in Japan. Otherwise, as someone in this forum had correctly pointed out, our kids would think that Honda is a Thai company.

you are going too far with this japan thailand built rubbish...u are looking rather silly now, i showed our reigonal manager from Honda Australia and he even laughed at ur posts...

should BMW tell people on the radio that lots of their cars arnt made in Germany but in south africa....No..

pull ur head in.

[Fr3aKi3]

For those of you who are with RACV, there's a nice 4 page article in this months Royal Auto magazine.

If anyone wants to read it and doesn't have a copy, Ii'll be happy to scan it and post it up. :honda:

scan and post please!


Quality isn't just a matter of where it's built but HOW it's built. Italy is known for making some awesome cars, are all cars from italy great? Are they all reliable? NO!

I've recently purchased a set of speakers, they're made in Israel. Of all countries which speakers are more commonly made I purchased a set which was made in Israel. I'll tell you what though, the sound quality is simply fantastic and the build quality is above any other japanese speakers that i've owned.

Just reiterating that build quality is define by HOW WELL something is built and not WHERE it's built!

[UNLS1]

good point again, im sure hondarox understands that japan can only make so many cars for so many counties at a time, and if honda just used japan to make cars for aus it would go down the drain.

wat about the new honda factory opening up in China.....was the mdx the crap quality coz it was made in canada?

[hondarox]

you are going too far with this japan thailand built rubbish...u are looking rather silly now, i showed our reigonal manager from Honda Australia and he even laughed at ur posts...

should BMW tell people on the radio that lots of their cars arnt made in Germany but in south africa....No..

pull ur head in.

Oh yes, laugh and ignore at your own peril.
Go ahead and import a "Thai" built next gen Euro or Legend.
Why don't you do a poll in this forum and ask Honda afficionados whether they would rather buy a Japanese-built or Thai-built Euro.

[NeoNode]

Oh yes, laugh and ignore at your own peril.
Go ahead and import a "Thai" built next gen Euro or Legend.
Why don't you do a poll in this forum and ask Honda afficionados whether they would rather buy a Japanese-built or Thai-built Euro.
You have what is normally referred to as the "Placebo Effect"
You are blinded by an air of arrogance.

No wait, i'm sorry, people who decide to join OzHonda are all Honda haters and definately not enthusiasts. FFS use your brain.

[aaronng]

Hmm..... I see a trend. Ppl like him have names like:

hondarox
Honda Enthusiast

[IAMVTEC]

hahahaha

[IAMVTEC]

also japan can suck my dick. Ive had 3 different PS2 break down.

their hair product is also overpriced piece of shit.

[Fr3aKi3]

also japan can suck my dick. Ive had 3 different PS2 break down.

their hair product is also overpriced piece of shit.

WTF have you been doing to the ps2's. I've been through 3 PS2's and I HAVN'T had a single problem. The reason why I've gone through 3 ps2's is because I gave one away to my cousin, then i got another, then my ex-GF decided to swap with me (she gave me the silver one). Each of those have gone through many many 12+hour sessions of gaming... and I havn't had anything go wrong for me. So i've got no idea what you've been doing to your machines.

I wonder what the world would be like without japan... maybe we'll still be in the darkages....

[040501912]

also japan can suck my dick. Ive had 3 different PS2 break down.

their hair product is also overpriced piece of shit.

wot the heck? i have my ps2 fooorr agesss now.. never break down ...

guess u play it rough huh ? :p

[aaronng]

Early PS2s had laser pickup problems. I believe him. I have 1 early gen and 1 late gen, both the huge bulky model. The early one has laser sensitivity problems.

[040501912]

hemp yeah the 1st model .. of the bulky 1 have eye laser problem. but the late model of the bulky 1 doesnt :p so better be patient b4 buying the ps3 as its getting better as the price getting lower too ...

"i think this goes to lounge section now :p"

[UNLS1]

hondarox please putting your name on this forum makes hondas look bad, please go and get urself into a toyota.

we are over you and your rubbish! lol even honda australia is over you.

[aaronng]

Closed. :)